Episode 280 – Vic Khanna

Introduction “An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Rachel: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Wednesday, october 29th, 2014, I”m Rachel Malone.
John: I’m John Richardson, and we have an interview with public health advocate and second amendment supporter, Vik Khanna.
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have a story of firearms and Tabasco in Colorado, so climb aboard
John: strap in
Rachel: and hang on! Episode 280 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

John – Work and teaching have been keeping me running around like chicken without its head so far this week. Thus, nothing gun related for me to report.

Rachel- Wilderness Fun Day at Deepen the Heart was a great success. I worked with a team of a couple dozen young people to put on the event for 40-50 attendees. We had medical scenarios out in the field complete with (fake) blood and guts, classes on everything from search and rescue to incident command structure to sheltering and fire-building, yummy food, fun, talent show, campfire with s’mores, and a great team of people who made my job (logistics) a breeze.

The next day was the Ghosts of Goliad marksmanship course at Battle Road. We had a group of guys who train together who discovered major equipment failures on their go-to battle rifles as well as a couple cute kids who just about out-shot everyone else. I enjoyed the long line of centerfires….great sight, sound, and smell.

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Seg 2- News

The “Hickenlooper Blues” came from David Codrea, Dave Simpson and Cyd Lantz. The video came from Peter Gould.  Give it a listen and a share.

-A California firearms owner was charged with making false statements on ATF Form 4473.  A federal jury in Sacramento found him innocent.  It took two long years for the gun owner to clear his name.  Ulysses S. Grant Early was the defendant.  Early was represented by civil rights attorney Donald Kilmer and his defense was partially funded by the Calguns Foundation.  Early’s alleged crime was to purchase a handgun from a police officer.  The firearm was NOT on California’s roster of approved firearms, though it is legal for law enforcement officers to buy this model of handgun.  It is also legal for the officer to then sell the firearm to a third party.  The sale is legal as long as the seller and buyer follow the many other California laws restricting firearms.

Early’s lawyer successfully argued that the police officer was the actual buyer, and that Early purchased the handgun from the officer in a separate legal transaction that occurred later.  In his purchase of the handgun from the officer, Early adhered to all state and federal firearm laws.  He used a licensed gun dealer for the transfer.  He had a valid California firearms safety certificate.  He completed and passed a background check, and he waited the required 10 days to receive the firearm.

Calguns Foundation Executive Director Brandon Combs said, “The prosecution went too far with a charge based on an ambiguous form and a lack of clarifying regulations.  The ATF needs to address its deficient process before more innocent lives are upended or destroyed by inadequately considered and improperly enforced federal gun control laws.”

Rob- California wages lawfare against gun owners.  There are fewer and fewer firearms on California’s approved roster.  This was a political hit designed to stop the purchase and sale of off-roster firearms through a person-to-person transaction.  The government will take all the rights we are willing to surrender.  Our liberties are only as strong as our willingness to defend them from the next unjust arrest.  Please donate to the calguns foundation.

-Do citizens need firearms to protect themselves and their families?  They do in thug-controlled Chicago.  Corey Brooks is a pastor on the southside of Chicago.  He was featured in an advertisement  endorsing Republican gubernatorial candidate Bruce Rauner.  Now Pastor Brooks has been threatened.  His family has been threatened.  His church has been vandalized.  His church has been robbed.  Now Pastor brooks says he’s moved his family into a new home while police investigate.

Brooks said he received the five phone calls on Friday. He recorded one of them, and provided it to police. In that call, which was played for the Sun-Times, a man’s voice is disguised via a high-pitched filter. He is heard calling Brooks a “token nigger.”  “The death threats seem to be related to Bruce Rauner. The five phone calls mention Rauner as well as Pastor Brooks.  “It’s really derogatory, real racial, a lot of homophobic words. It’s real life-threatening.”

Rob- Ministers are supposed to be our conscience.  They are supposed to remind us right from wrong.  There are a lot of political wrongs to be righted on the south side of Chicago.  That won’t happen as long as the thugs sit in city hall.  The Chicago police are supposed to work for the citizens.  In fact, they work for the Chicago government.  Now we are asking the police to investigate a number of crimes against the city’s political rival.  It isn’t going to happen.  No one will serve time for these crimes.  No one.

-We have more crazy news, but this is from Virginia.  Robert Dickens became the victim of a SWATting call. The Virginia Citizens Defense League obtained the details.  Dickens stopped for some coffee at a 7-11 in the skyline area of Fairfax, Virginia.  He was traveling by motorcycle and open carrying.  He was soon pulled over by four Fairfax police officers. The four officers disarmed mister Dickens.  Dickens of course, asked why he was stopped.  The police had a call from the 7-11 saying a white guy on a motorcycle was robbing the place.   The next day, the Fairfax County Police Department revealed that the caller had made false calls before.  The caller was a known SWATter.  Unfortunately, the individual who makes the false calls is thought to be mentally ill. The FCPD has a difficult time pursuing a criminal SWATting case against the caller because they can’t prove criminal intent rather than bizarre mentally deviant behavior.

The caller claims he doesn’t know right from wrong.  Somehow that makes it alright.

-Don’t worry, the police will protect us.. or not.  James Brothers is a cab driver in Salt Lake City.  He picked up four customers at a bar.  The customers argued.  Three of them got out at another party, but the fourth customer asked to be taken to the Hilton Hotel.  This customer appeared intoxicated, and the driver complied.  On this leg of the trip, the customer drew his firearm and asked Brothers if he wanted to “live or die?”  The driver grabbed his cell phone, ripped his keys from the ignition, and jumped out of his vehicle. The passenger grabbed and tore Mister Brown’s shirt as he fled.  Fortunately the driver slipped away and called 911.

The assailant was 44-year-old Byron Keith McDonald of Texas. McDonald is a federal police officer with the Federal Bureau of Indian Affairs, a sub-agency of the Department of the Interior.  The agent was on official business for the Bureau when he pulled his gun on the driver.

Security cameras at the hotel confirmed the driver’s story.  McDonald was arrested and charged with third-degree felony aggravated assault. The Salt Lake County District Attorney said McDonald’s superiors are aware of what’s going on. Quote, “We don’t care whether you are a police officer, whether you are a rich person, poor person. It doesn’t matter what your status is. If you commit a crime and we have evidence to support that, we’re going to treat you like anybody else.” McDonald remained in jail for 5 days before posting bail.  The driver said he no longer picks up passengers after dark.

– A Santa Fe County sheriff’s deputy shot and killed a fellow deputy during an argument at a Las Cruces, New Mexico hotel.  27-year-old deputy Tai Chan shot and killed 29-year-old deputy Jeremy Martin.  The deputies had transported a New Mexico prisoner to Arizona and they were driving home when they stopped at the hotel in Las Cruces. Police said the two deputies went to a Dublin Street Pub where they got into an argument.  They returned to the hotel around midnight where the argument escalated.  Deputy Chan shot Deputy Martin in the back as Martin fled toward an elevator. The wounded deputy was taken to local hospital and pronounced dead.  Officer Martin was married and had three children under the age of 10.  A spokesman for the sheriff’s department said deputies are allowed to drink alcohol as long as they are not on duty, but they are held to a code of conduct.


-A voter in Douglasville, Georgia was told to remove his hat before being allowed to vote.  A poll worker complained because the hat said “NRA Instructor” which the poll worker associated with the Republican party.  Bundy Cobb, who is certified by the National Rifle Association in firearms training, wears the hat in part to promote his business, True Aim Defense. But poll workers apparently saw it as something different.  Quote “I went by the first two ladies, and they didn’t say anything. And then the next lady, she said ‘sir, you’re going to have to take off your hat.  Cobb looked down the voting line and saw another man with a hat on. “What’s the difference between his hat and mine?” Cobb asked.

That’s when workers told him that his NRA hat was perceived as being associated with the GOP and that he couldn’t wear it near the voting booth.

Cobb reportedly wore the same hat to the same polling place in several previous elections.

Cobb took off his hat and contacted a local reporter.. as well as the state board of elections.

Rob- Democrats are members of the NRA.  Do they also outlaw clothing that identifies someone who supports Public School Teachers or fireman or police officers?  Both are associated with the Democrat Party.

-Politics crosses borders.  The Conservative government in Canada shelved its bill to reduce restrictions on long guns.  This happened after the Muslim terrorist attacked the Canadian parliament. Members of government responsible for The Common Sense Firearms Licensing Act are refusing to discuss the bill. The bill was scheduled for three days of debate beginning on the day of the attack. The firearms bill has drawn criticism from the NDP, the Liberals and the Coalition for Gun Control for loosening restrictions on the transportation of restricted and prohibited firearms and for giving the cabinet rather than the RCMP the final say over the classification of dangerous weapons. They contend that this bill would increase the threat to public safety. It should be noted here that the terrorist used a non-restricted, non-prohibited Winchester 94 to carry out his attack. Moreover, he was a prohibited person due to his previous brushes with the law. Meanwhile, rather than allowing its military personnel to carry loaded firearms, Canada has ordered them not to wear their uniforms in public when off duty.

-The recent murder by a high-school student in Washington may promote more murderous bigotry against gun owners.  Billionaire Nick Hanauer (HANHOUR) contributed one million dollars to Washington state firearms initiative I 594.  Hanauer Tweeted that we need more school shootings to get the amendment passed.

Comment- Well, we’ve had a school shooting, and amendment 594 would have done nothing, NOTHING to stop it.This young man broke a handful of laws, such as firearms theft, possession of a handgun by a minor, possession of a handgun on school grounds, and the far more serious laws against murder, attempted murder, and suicide.

This campaign is an emotional appeal to disarm Washington firearms owners.  That is ALL it is, nothing more.

Raleigh police are searching for two armed men who robbed three people at gunpoint late Saturday near the entrance to the North Carolina State University Club on Hillsborough Street. Police say the victims were walking to their vehicles after returning from the North Carolina State Fair around 11:30 p.m. when the armed men approached them and stole their wallets. No one was injured. The two robbers then drove off. List members will recall that NC Superior Court Judge Donald Stephens recently upheld an administrative ban on carry at the fair by Agriculture Commissioner Steve Troxler. Regardless of whether or not the three victims would have been armed if not for the ban, we find it hard to believe that the publicity announcing a gun free zone didn’t encourage the robbers.

-Last month whistleblower and retired ATF Agent Jay Dobyns won a long court battle against the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.  Agent Dobyns had warned the public about corruption at the ATF, and that the ATF failed to address death threats against Dobyns family after Dobyns worked undercover.  Now the ATF is dissatisfied with their loss in court.

The ATF and the Department of Justice are appealing the ruling.  This could take years in the courts.

Dobyns wrote on CleanupATF.org last week, Quote “I will never give in and I am excited to now have a panel of judges examine what ATF AND DOJ have done. ATF and DOJ want more scrutiny on their conduct? Let’s go! I wrongly believed that they would not want any more exposure on what dirty and corrupt organizations they are running but it appears that they have not yet felt enough pain. They will. I promise.”

comments- This looks like the same old retaliation from the Bureau that we  saw before Acting ATF Director B. Todd Jones promised to cleanup the agency.

I think they picked on the wrong agent.  Dobyns is a bulldog.

-A firearms company has some heavy guns off its own as it brings legal evidence against the ATF.  The Bureau raided Ares Armor earlier this year over the sale of polymer 80% AR receivers.  Ares replied with documents filed by Daniel G. O’Kelly.  O’Kelly stated that the polymer lowers are not receivers, and hence not firearms. Daniel O’Kelly is a 30 year veteran of law enforcement and has 20 years with the ATF. He essentially wrote the firearms training manual for ATF agents.

Rob- I was at a protest in support of Ares Armor.  They are in my area.  The are located in Oceanside, California.  That is one of the towns immediately south of Camp Pendleton.  Ares employs several veterans as you might expect.

-The District of Columbia finally announced its long expected appeal to a federal judge’s ruling.  The ruling from last July overturned the District’s total ban on carrying a gun in public.  The Federal judge said he would not reconsider his decision.  Ted Gest, spokesman for the DC attorney general’s office, says the District hasn’t been indecisive on whether to appeal, but rather has been waiting for the legal process to play out first.

Rob- did anyone doubt the District would appeal?  An appeal is a win-win for DC.  The delay enforcement of the judges ruling.  The District judge might die or be transferred to another district, in which case DC would appeal again.  If the District wins the appeal then they will prevent honest citizens from carrying in the district.  The District might lose this appeal, but that could take years.

– Late Wednesday night, Judicial Watch finally received some information it has sought for years.  President Obama claimed executive privilege to withhold over 15,000 documents detailing the “Operation Fast and Furious” gun-walking scandal, including email conversations between Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. and his wife.   Operation Fast and Furious was the Federal operation involving the justice department, the state department, the FBI, Customs and the BATFE.  The goal of Fast and Furious was to walk guns into the hands of the Mexican drug cartels.  Nonetheless, the Justice Department was forced to release a 1,307-page “Vaughn index” identifying and describing the withheld documents. Those records were released last week and are online.  The hidden records indicated extensive communications between top officials in the Justice Department, the White House, and BATFE related to how they planned to respond to both press and Congressional inquiries into Operation Fast and Furious. We are including a link to the full index in case any listeners would like to search it on their own.

Rob- the White House has their fingerprints all over this coverup.


-An Open Carry Breakfast at The Ranch restaurant in Greeley Colorado invited gun owners to enjoy breakfast and raise awareness of Colorado law and Second Amendment Rights. The gathering gun owners could eat while armed.  The breakfast was hosted by the local gun store, Brick House Guns. Store manager Rich Carroll said the purpose was to show that gun owners are responsible everyday citizens with a right to protect themselves and protect others in need.

With a Smith & Wesson revolver holstered at his side, Carroll stirred creamer in his coffee as he shared breakfast with his son, Riley, and Riley’s girlfriend, Brooke Quintana.   15 other firearms owners joined them in eating while armed. Carroll said the event was exactly what he had hoped for. The breakfast was calm, no one was uncomfortable.  Some of the patrons at the restaurant who didn’t carry were curious and Carroll was happy to inform them.

comment- I’ve seen lots of car clubs that would meet and greet at a restaurant.  I bet it is a great way to attract new friends.  Praise the the ammunition and the tabasco sauce.

Smoky moe’s in Cedar park!??

For the second night in a row, an alleged Fresno [CA] gang member shot himself with his own weapon. Officers investigated a report of shots fired and found Randy Mcbride, 28, who had sustained a gunshot wound in the leg. McBride had put a sawed-off shotgun in his pants.  While trying to draw the weapon, he pulled the trigger and the shot struck his leg.   Mcbride is a known gang member and was treated for his injuries at Fresno Community Regional Medical Center.  McBride is facing charges of being a felon in possession of a firearm. A night before, another gang member, 31 year old Edgar Navarro-Chavoya, shot himself with a .22 caliber revolver after threatening another man with a gun.

Rob- I was struck by lead, but never a shotgun.

Gun Quotes

“Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.” Marko Kloos (pronounced CLOSE) from his essay “Why the Gun is Civilization.”

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back after this
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Segment 3 Interviews
Vic Khanna met firearms as an immigrant to the gun culture.  The drug dealer next door pushed Vic to arm himself.  He saw the right of self-defense and personal responsibility.  Teaching firearms safety is part of a larger lesson.  We don’t drive with drunks.  We don’t take drugs with friends.  My son learned we don’t stay in a room with an unsecured firearm at a neighbors house.

There is a lot of hostility from the anti-gun crowd.  We have to reply in a civil tone.  We have to remain attractive during the debate.  Firearms ignorance can get our children killed.  You need to get training with a firearm to meet your personal responsibilities.

We could cut our healthcare spending in half by simple self-care.  We go to the doctor a billion times a year.  Most of the time it is our fault for over eating, drinking and lack of exercise.  We go to the doctor for every illness once we’re so compromised.  Obamacare encourages more screening rather than encouraging good health.

follow Vik at

Segment 4 DGUs
A recent convert to islam attacked four rookie New York City police officers.  Without warning, he swung a small axe and broke one officer’s arm.  The second attack missed, but the third struck an officer in the back of the head. The remaining two officers shot the assailant.  They also shot a 29-year-old woman in the back.  She was walking a half-block away.

The officer is in serious but stable condition. http://nypost.com/2014/10/23/man-shot-dead-after-striking-cop-in-the-head-with-ax/

Rob- How are those knife laws working in New York?

A man accused of opening fire in an Ensley [AL] KFC is in the hospital. He and a restaurant employee exchanged gunfire during an attempted robbery in which both were shot. Police say the shooter went into the Ensley restaurant around 6:30 p.m. Sunday to rob it and started shooting. An armed employee fired back. The employee was hit in the lower body and the injuries are not life threatening. The suspect was shot in the stomach and had to undergo emergency surgery.

Two burglars entered Arthur Williams’ home in Birmingham, Alabama. Mr. Williams has had his home broken into multiple times in recent weeks and has had it ransacked. This time the burglars got the worse of the encounter as one of them got shot in the chest with a .22 rifle. They fled in a SUV and Mr. Williams continued firing at them shattering its rear-window. Shortly thereafter, the wounded burglar was dropped off at Trinity Medical Center. He later underwent surgery at UAB Hospital. Birmingham Police are continuing to investigate the incident.

Gainesville [TX] police are investigating a shooting that left a suspected home invader dead after they say he was shot by a homeowner Tuesday morning.The suspect is identified as 20-year-old Dakota Ray Huckaby of Gainesville. The homeowner told officers over the phone he had shot the intruder. “Officers did arrive on scene and located a male laying in the backyard of the residence,” said police spokeswoman Belva McClinton. “He succumbed to his injuries, so they did not transport from the scene.” Area residents said that the homeowner is the father of a 9-year-old boy, and he made the choice he felt necessary to protect his household – a decision that locals say they understand.

-This second Texas shooting was sent to us by our listener, Scott.  Two women drove a stolen car to a northeast Harris County home.  Then they tried to break in.  The homeowner shot both intruders.  According to police, both suspects were airlifted by Life Flight to Memorial Hermann Hospital in critical condition.

We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.
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Segment 5 Show close
Listener e-mail discussion

Rachel- Thomas from Canada sent me a message after I complained about what days at the range do to my hair:

Guys have bad hair days at the range too! Until about 8 years ago, my hair was very long. Use to get caught in my belt and holster unless l tied it back lol. My solution was to carry a spray bottle of water in my car. I would wet my hair and brush it out. Great way to get rid of the hat head look!


(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Rob- John do you want to mention anything off of your blog you would like to talk about?

-John – Harry Reid’s Senate Majority PAC has resorted to race-baiting in the Senate race between Kay Hagan and Thom Tillis. They released a radio ad this weekend aimed at African-American voters that had this statement in it – “Tillis even led the effort to pass the type of stand your ground laws that caused the shooting death of Trayvon Martin”. They are referring to the passage of NC’s Castle Doctrine law in 2011. Besides its reprehensible efforts at race baiting, this ad is wrong on two fronts. While Thom Tillis didn’t stand in the way of the passage of our Castle Doctrine law, he didn’t lead the effort. Second, George Zimmerman’s defense never brought up stand your ground. It was a straight self-defense effort. This ad proves that accusations of racism are the last refuge of a liberal scoundrel!

Rachel: This is the last episode that comes out before the November elections.  I hope you all get out the vote. That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Vic Khanna for joining us today.  Rob and John will you be with us next time?  I’m looking forward to it.  Until the next time…
Rob: stay safe,
John: be aware,
Rachel: and we’ll see you down the road.