Episode 253 – Jeff Knox


“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Saturday, July 19th, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have an interview with Jeff Knox, Director of the firearms coalition.
Gary Daughetry: I’m Gary Daughetry, and we have our weekly stories of defensive gun uses
Gary Harpster: I’m Gary Harpster, and we have our usual gun news
Rob: so climb aboard
Gary D: strap in
Gary H: and hang on!
Paul: Episode 253 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

Paul: Museum story. My Son’s Birthday party story
Gary: I ordered a new left handed holster for personal and class training.
Break
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Seg 2- NewsNews_Partner_white

1 Paul: Nick Leghorn over at The Truth About Guns reports that Remington has pulled all information about the R51, the handgun released this past winter just before Shot Show, off of it’s website. I REALLY wanted to like this gun, but was concerned when there were no examples available to fire at media day at the range. If true that it is going away  it is too bad. I really liked the style of the gun, it was kind of retro and futuristic at the same time. When I held the display model at the Remington booth it was hard to make the grip safety work reliably and the red dot laser was even harder to make actuate, but I thought that those things could be worked on. Alas it looks like Remington is not going to give the R51 a second try.
Comments?

2 Rob- California Governor Brown signed a bill into law banning single shot handguns. This is an anti-gun solution in search of a problem.  Single shot firearms are not used in crimes.  Nor are firearms converted from single shot back to normal semi-automatic operation.  So why write and pass such a law?  This was a must pass bill for anti-gun Democrat legislators who are eager to secure campaign funding.  Money talks in the Golden State, particularly anti-gun  campaign donations.

Gary D- Maybe the hunters that think they don’t need the NRA will join now that they can’t use their Thompson/Center Encore anymore.
Comments?

Paul- We have a lot of news from an epidemic of failed gun free zones.

3 Gary H- Jack in the Box restaurants all across the country continue to be an easy hunting ground for criminals since the company requested that gun owners eat elsewhere.  A Jack in the Box in Honolulu, Hawaii was robbed by a suspect carrying a rifle.  A Houston Texas Jack in the Box was held up by two armed robbers in broad daylight.  Including another holdup in Tennessee, two people were shot in some of the latest Jack in the Box robberies.

Brian Luscomb is Vice President for Jack in the Box.  He said, “Creating a warm and inviting environment for all of our guests and employees is a top priority for Jack in the Box.

The presence of guns inside a restaurant could create an uncomfortable situation for our guests and employees.. and lead to unintended consequences.”

Paul- Mister Luscomb, your gun free zone does not mean what you think it means.

Gary D- Another Bloomberg success story.

Comments?

4 Rob- Speaking of Bloomberg success stories.. Target Department Stores have been targeted by thieves now that concealed carriers are not welcome.  A Target customer was robbed at gunpoint by several thieves in the parking lot at a Georgia Target store.  In another Georgia Target store, a woman was severely beaten and her car stolen from the store parking garage.  On the west coast, a Target security guard approached a man for shoplifting in an Oregon store.  The thief pointed his gun at the security guard and fled.

Target’s interim CEO, John Mulligan, said: “Bringing firearms to Target creates an environment that is at odds with the family-friendly shopping and work experience we strive to create.”

Paul- Being robbed and mugged isn’t exactly the family-friendly experience I want when I shop.

Comments?

BREAK
5 Gary D- Police are searching for two suspects who robbed a Chicago Transit Authority train at gunpoint.  In case you forgot, public transit is another no-carry zone for honest Illinois gun owners.  These latest robberies occurred around 4 in the afternoon on the Orange Line train between the Halsted and Roosevelt stop.  This is the train typically used by tourists who fly into Chicago’s Midway airport.  The robbers boarded the train and announced an armed robbery. They robbed several people of an iPad, two laptops, an iPhone, bank cards and $105 dollars in cash.  The thieves fled when the train arrived at the Roosevelt station. The CTA did not make a statement other than to say it’s a “police matter.”  I call it another gun free zone not working in Chicago

Paul- Maybe you can excuse a corporate executive for not understanding the nature of self-defense, but when the executive is paid that much, he should ask the experts.

6 Paul- Here is a store that should know about self-defense.. and about customer service.  Absolute Outdoors in New Kent, Virginia has a large sign in their front window that says “No loaded guns”.  Ed Levine from the Virginia Citizens Defense League asked the store how the policy was enforced.  The store’s owner had this shockingly rude answer.

“You need to add to your list of titles:
Loser
Idiot
In desperate need of a life
life long member of the tiny dick club
Just plain stupid
Now that better describes you.

I’m usually there everyday so you should drop by and see me little man.”

Most guns stores simply ask you to keep your loaded firearm holstered, but not Absolute Outdoors in New Kent, Virginia.

7 Gary H- We have another advocate for gun-free zones in Missouri.  Missouri Governor Jay Nixon vetoed legislation that allowed specially trained teachers to carry concealed guns on school grounds.  Nixon said armed teachers jeopardize safety.  The Democrat governor waited until the legislative session closed before he issued his veto.  Now the Republican-led Legislature has to wait until the September session to attempt an override.

If trained teachers jeopardize students, do the Missouri Capitol Police jeopardize safety of the Governor and legislators too?

8 Rob- We don’t often think of a county as being a gun free zone, but I live in such a county in California.  San Joaquin County, California has similar restrictions with only a few hundred carry permits.  Those of us who have to live in gun-free California counties are told that the police will be there to protect us.  There is an important difference between protecting yourself and waiting for the police.  Last week that  difference mattered.

Three armed gunmen tried to rob a bank in San Joaquin county.  A deputy spotted the robbery in progress, but he was outside the bank and the citizens inside the bank were unarmed.  The robbers took three hostages.  Two of the hostages were badly injured as the robbers tried to escape, and one of the hostages was killed by gunfire.

The police will be there in minutes, and sometimes seconds are the difference between life and death.

Gary D- The robbery took place in Stockton, and the robbers were using AK pistols.  More failure of gun control.. just like Chicago.

9 Gary D- We reported on this story a few episodes ago, but the story of Shaneen Allen goes on.  Shaneen drove into New Jersey where she was stopped by a policeman for a lane change.  Unfortunately, she was carrying a firearm, and like an honest citizen, she informed the New Jersey officer who stopped her.  She was arrested since there is no reciprocity between New Jersey and Pennsylvania where Shaneen was licensed.  Shaneen is a single mom with two children and two jobs.  She works late and was robbed twice this year.  She took her firearms safety class and had her carry license for only a few weeks.

Think about this for a moment.  This young woman drove a car that is far more powerful than any handgun.  She used a drivers license issued by Pennsylvania and recognized all across the country.. and even recognized in New Jersey.  She is also recognized as a US citizen from a birth certificate issued in another town.

As I said, Allen had a license to carry a concealed weapon issued in Pennsylvania.  That licensing process is far more rigorous than getting her drivers license or her citizenship papers, particularly for a concealed carry license from Philadelphia where Allen lives.  New Jersey ignores that license and branded her a criminal.

I don’t know if you remember speed traps in the south and southwest where small towns would use law enforcement to fine and imprison strangers.  This is the same miscarriage of justice inflicted on an innocent woman.  Allen faces a felony weapons possession charge and faces three year in New Jersey prison.  This single mom was already jailed for 46 days before she could make bail.  She was about to accept a plea deal and serve the three years when she got a good lawyer.  This is bigotry against honest gun owners.

Show me the victim if she is a criminal.

There is a defense fund on Facebook, and I hope you will call the National Rifle Association and Gun Owners of America asking them to help her.  You are a member, aren’t you?

10 Paul- Anti-gun groups in Nevada want to put an initiative on the ballot to legislate universal firearms background checks.  The Las Vegas Review Journal came out against the measure in an editorial.  They said the gun control proponents must “overcome the strongest argument against expanded background checks: the fact that determined lawbreakers who want a gun will not respect the laws written to disarm them.”  The editorial then went on to cite the many examples of criminals either avoiding or passing background checks.

11 Gary H- Detroit has shown that armed citizens save lives.. and might save their city as well.  Detroit has a decreasing tax base and huge municipal debts.  Much of Detroit is abandoned, and the police can’t even patrol the ruins.  Despite those tough conditions, robberies are down 37 percent year to year.  Breakins are down 22 percent and there have been 30 percent fewer carjackings.  It isn’t that the Detroit economy is suddenly so much better.  What changed is that Detroit citizens are harder targets for criminals.

Police Chief James Craig said, “Criminals are getting the message that good Detroiters are armed and will use their weapon.  I don’t want to take away from the good work our investigators are doing, but I think part of the drop in crime, and robberies in particular, is because criminals are thinking twice that citizens could be armed.”

Paul- This week’s quote come from Lysander Spooner.  “A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.”

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this
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Segment 3 Interviews

Interview with Jeff Knox, Director of the Firearms Coalition talking about universal background checks.  Red/Green stripe is an old proposal.  A green “G” is a known good guy.  There are a few obvious questions.  Who pays?  Will any period of review, say 5 years, satisfy the gun grabbers?

Segment 4 DGUs
1 Gary H- It is good to have friends with guns, even if they are strangers.  Donald Sacco was at an Orange County, Florida bus stop.  That is where he was attacked and robbed by Thomas Thorpe.  Thorpe Stabbed Sacco in the hand, leg and abdomen.  A passing motorist saw the attack and stopped his car.  The motorist drew his firearm and held Thorpe at gunpoint while other witnesses helped the wounded Sacco.  Thorpe was taken into custody by deputies and charged with attempted first-degree murder, aggravated battery with a deadly weapon, robbery and carrying a concealed weapon.  The victim was transported to the hospital in stable condition.

2 Rob-  With friends like this, it is time to change occupations.  A homeowner in a North Houston suburb went for his shotgun when three armed men broke into his home.  One of the thieves grabbed the shotgun and the two wrestled for control of the long gun.   That is when the thief accidentally fired his handgun and struck another thief.  The wounded thief was captured by deputies and transported to the hospital.  The two other thieves escaped.

Distance is your friend in a fight.  Keep your firearms close and your enemies far away.

I’m not much of a long-gun guy yet.  Is it true that the only use of your handgun is to fight your way to your long gun?

3 Paul –

This article was e-mailed into Guns Save Lives.

A woman in Gainsville, Texas confronted a man who wandered into her yard.  She thought the intruder was high on drugs because of the way he acted when she repeatedly asked him to leave.  At that point the intruder threw his hat on the ground, and came at her. The homeowner’s 13 year old boy had his Ruger 10/22 in hand, but did not have to fire a shot.  The intruder turned and ran at the sight of the firearm.  The homeowner’s 15 year old daughter called 911, but it took the police an additional 8 minutes to arrive.

This incident is typical of most defensive gun uses.  You only call the police after the threat is apparent.  The sight of a firearm stops most attackers.  The police arrive to take a report after the event is over.

Long guns are better than nothing.

4 Gary D- Two teenagers — a 15-year-old and a 17-year-old — tried to steal Victoria Davison’s car last month while she was in it, “I want the keys, car, everything,” commanded one of the teens.  Davison hesitated, prompting one teen to tell the other, “Go get the cannon” — a reference to his gun. But Davison had a “cannon” of her own and pulled it out of her gym bag. She shot the 15-year-old. “I shot the one that was in front of me. The one in the back of me, he said a curse word, and then he looked at his friend, and then he ran off while his friend was on the ground,” Police are investigating what may be “dozens” of carjackings and robberies tied to the teens. The wounded 15 year-old is also connected to a violent shooting where he shot a 43-year-old man in the face following an attempted carjacking.

I’m sorry everybody but I am a trainer and I tend to see teaching moments. She says in the interview that she had the gun in a bag and struggled to get the zipper open and the gun out. Another reason to if at all possible on-body carry if you can.

Victoria Davison interview

Teens accused in several carjackings seen together at Children’s hospital

5 Gary H-  A guest at the Grand Hyatt Hotel on the river walk in San Antonio, Texas had to use deadly force to defend himself and a woman when a mentally ill man threatened and then charged the pair. Torres went to the sixth floor of the hotel at 1 p.m. and started breaking lights in the hallway, according to police. He started to bang on a door, and when a witness opened it, Torres said he was “looking for someone to kill,” police said.

The witness slammed the door, so Torres banged on another one, police said.

The man inside of that room waited a moment to open the door, and when he did, Torres charged him. The hotel guest drew a concealed handgun, fired one shot, and struck Torres in the chest, stopping him just outside of the door.

No charges have been filed or are currently expected in the case.

Torres’ family says the man was suffering from an unidentified mental illness.

Gary – Teaching moment – If a stranger is pounding on your door, don’t open it.

6 Rob -Two homeless Oregon men thought someone reported them to the Bureau of Land Management as trespassers, so they went to the man’s home armed with a baseball bat and took turns beating him.  The beating caused extensive head, face and back injuries. In an attempt to escape after the attack, the victim grabbed a shotgun from his home and fired two rounds into the air. The suspects fled and called police to report that they had been shot at. They were later arrested and charged with assault.

Gary D- I guess that is the Joe Biden defense.

DGU –
This one was sent in by Greg in Bremmerton,

From the NBCLosAngeles.com site.
A market robber is believed to have accidentally killed his accomplice during a fight with the owner of the El Sereno store they were robbing Friday, the Los Angeles Police Department said.
A 21-year-old man allegedly shot a 35-year-old man at the market at 11:15 a.m., according to police.
“There was an altercation with the store owner, who tried to take the rifle away,” LAPD officer Nuria Vanegas said.
The man who was shot was wielding a machete, police said.
The men’s names were not immediately released.
The store owner was uninjured.

Paul- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Segment 5 Show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Gary H- Email #1 From Ken in Arizona
I thought you’d like to know that Target’s “no guns allowed” policy is actually working! I just bought a new cell phone, and 2 new tablet computers, and a few accessories to go along with them. And not once did I ever consider going into Target to shop. Their policy worked. It kept me and my gun out. Apparently, smarter people than I are making good decisions after all.
Who says a “gun-free zone” doesn’t work.
Ken in AZ

Gary D- We got a message from John Willett of the Bold Departure podcast
Hi, What’s up guys? I was just listening to the episode with Russell Smith’s proposal for firearms purchases. Frankly, moving to combine photo ID and ability to purchase a firearm is a huge step in the wrong direction. I will add that we shouldn’t generate proposals based on the worst state’s laws. I have seen a proposal that makes a lot of sense. Rather than using the failed paradigm of relying on laws that prohibit activity, we utilize technology and an incentive for folks to conduct their own background check prior to a sale via a website that performs the same function as NICS does now. The website gives them a code that is good when combined with info from their existing ID for firearm purchases for a predetermined amount of time. The incentive is that the seller of the firearm would keep documentation of the sale with the code and that would provide them legal immunity against criminal action related to the sale.

Paul- The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Rob- Also please check out Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat training classes. Go to Cornered Cat dot com for more classes and details.

Gary H- Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.
For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the ( mid-week / weekend ) show…
Rob: stay safe,
Gary H: be aware,
Gary D: and we’ll see you down the road.