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“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast presented by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded Sunday May 3 2015, I’m Paul Lathrop
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonights show we talk with Laura Carno about her post, “no, I will not shut my pie hole”.
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about the Baltimore riots.
Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGU’s a homeowner uses a handgun to defend themselves after their home was burglarised for the second time in a week… so climb aboard
Rob: strap in
John : and hang on!
Paul: episode 328 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.
Seg 1- Personal news from each participant
Gary- Waiting for my AR to arrive by mail. Added lights to my safe. I’m going to hear Sonal Shah speak.
John – I had a hearing exam on Monday. I have tinnitis or ring in the ears that is due to exposure to loud noise when I was younger. I did something stupid but that was common back then – I shot without hearing protection. Now I have both ringing in the ears and high frequency drop out. I’m sure there will come a time when I need hearing aids. In other firearm related personal news, I finally weighed the lightweight AR I built. Without optics and a backup rear sight, it comes in at 5 lb, 12 oz. With those attached, I’m still only at 6 lbs 2.7 oz. I just need to find time to try it at the range! I’m also gathering parts now to make a retro style AR. This AR building is addictive!
Rob- I was in Los Angeles earlier this week, so I dropped in and heard Alan Korwin speak. Alan owns and runs Bloomfield press. He wrote many books and has a great blog called page nine. Doris started the group, Children of Jewish Holocaust Survivors and the group Jews can shoot. Alan spoke about what to do after you’ve defended yourself. That was interesting, and the audience was interesting. Also, Doris gave me a great hat. I shot IDPA and mentored another group of doctors for their first shots. Someone brought a FN 5.7 and they let me shoot it. It is loud, but doesn’t have much recoil.
Paul – RANT
I need to go off a bit here. I had a friend and dedicated fighter for our rights post a video to my wall asking if he knew who the person was that was in the video that he posted. The video was of a single person doing an “open carry” demonstration of the sidewalk in front of the federal courthouse in Sioux Falls. The video came in 2 parts and never showed the face of the person who recorded the video. I did not recognize the voice of the person and so I replied and said that I didn’t although the kid was a bit of a ummm jerk. I said worse on Facebook, but I keep the show very family friendly.
It turns out that I do know the person. They replied on Facebook and let’s just say that the butthurt was strong in that one.
Let me take just a minute here and let me let you know how I feel about open carry, although for many of you this may be a bit of going over well trodden ground I think that it is important. Actually let me read a post I made to facebook and I will continue on after that.
I support your Second Amendment rights, I believe that you have the right to posses and peacefully use any weapon that you can afford. This includes everything from the 10-22 to the F-22. I also support your 1st Amendment rights to say whatever you feel, to worship whatever God you believe in and associate with whomever you chose to.
My hobby and part time side business ( Polite Society Podcast) relies and advocates heavily on both of those rights guarantees the Constitution offers.
However if you are one of those that are being a jerk about your 1st and 2nd Amendment rights, doing some of the myriad of things that hurt us. Things such as open carrying in a manner that causes public alarm; carrying a rifle in a place of business (some leniency given to those in Texas and other states where open carry of handguns isn’t allowed);, or making videos while egging police on just to hopefully make a “YouTube celebrity” out of yourself while using a fake name you are hurting us badly.
I use my real name both here on Facebook and on my show. I don’t hide behind some made up moniker. If you cannot put your real name to what you are doing, if you would not be proud to have your social media posts displayed to your parents, to your preacher, to your doctor or to your grandchildren (whether or not they agree with you) then PLEASE for the love of God DON’T post them!
A lot of people have “friended” me on Facebook because of the show. Thank you to all of you who have, even if I haven’t met you personally or interacted with you often. If you think that I might be referring to you in this post then it’s possible that I am. I beg of you to please look at what you are doing and think to yourself “Is what I am doing going to alarm someone who may be neutral to our fight and make them think that the other side may be right?” (end of FB post)
I support your right to open carry. I open carry my handgun while at home. I have participated in organized open carry walks. If done correctly open carry can be a powerful tool to help us. If done incorrectly it can be a tool for Bloomberg’s demanding mommies, CSGV (coalition to stop gun violence, and the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence? )and others to point and say “look at the loonies that they have! Even worse, it can make the average citizen who votes, and is neutral to our side turn away from us.
While you are open carrying EVERYTHING that you do is magnified. If you are polite and respectful, if you are dressed well and well groomed, and if you inspire confidence in those around you that helps us.
If however you are a jerk to those that you interact with, if you are untidy or unkempt, or most importantly if you instil fear you are doing more damage than demanding mommies or the brady bunch ever has.
Again I ask, if your actions could be seen to intimidate PLEASE think twice about doing them.
Rob- We are ambassadors. Are you a good ambassador who will appeal to the average citizen?
Seg 2- News
Paul- Leading the news we have conflicting statements from Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake.
The mayor said the following in a press conference when things started to get ugly in her city. (Audio clip #1)
After getting some criticism she then decided that she never actually said that at all, and that we were just twisting her words. (audio clip #2)
-Paul- this is classic Progressivism. She is going on as if nothing ever happened. Making it up as she goes along. I would suggest Mayor Rawlings-Blake that you mark the block that your personal residence is on as a place set aside as room to destroy That sounds like a better balance to me than places where hard working people are trying to make a living.
We are going to take a quick side trip here. while perusing Facebook one evening I came across a video that puts the Police violence thing in perspective. Here is some audio. (Audio clip #3)
-Paul- A couple of things about this caught my attention. First that they looked not just at deaths but at all charges of excessive force by officers, Second that they broke things down by contact.
I am one that doesn’t respond well to percentages and so did some of my own math on the figures they presented. If 2000 people are contacted in one form or another by police 1 person will file an excessive force complaint. Of all the complaints only 8 percent had merit, so if police were to contact 25000 people on average only 1 complaint of excessive force would have any merit. That is a DAMN good track record.
Rob- there are 20 gang murders for every gun related homicide that involves a policeman. The vast majority of the police involved shootings are ruled to be justified by self-defense. That puts violence into perspective.
Rob- Taxes and regulations in Baltimore drove businesses out of the city. Unemployment jumped. Addiction rose to record levels. Fatherlessness rose as young men could not find jobs and start families. People who still had jobs left Baltimore because of increasing crime. The price and quality of housing crashed, just as it has in Detroit. While all of this was happening, the city, state and federal governments poured extraordinary amounts of money into housing projects and schools. Now a black drug addict whose mother was a drug addict was injured by a mostly black police force controlled by black politicians. People rioted and burned stores owned by koreans. Government policies killed Baltimore.. and now they are looking for someone to blame. The politicians will blame racism.. and propose the police wear body cameras.
Let’s also ask every elected official to wear body cameras too.. with another camera placed in their office. That is leading by example. Anything else is politics as usual.
There are several myths about gun control. The first is that waiting periods save lives. A waiting period is the delay between purchasing a firearm and taking possession of it,. It has been called a “cooling off” period that could stop impulsive actions. That doesn’t make sense if the buyer already owns a gun. That is what a Federal Judge said in California, but California politicians appealed the judge’s decision anyway.
One Wisconsin lawmaker finally had the courage to state the obvious about waiting periods. Wisconsin Senator Van Wanggaard served as a traffic investigator and graduated from the Racine police academy. He said waiting periods don’t work. Studies backed him up. Waiting periods don’t change the overall suicide rate or homicide rate. Some studies found a decrease in violence while other studies found an increase in violence associated with waiting periods. The results hinge on a critical distinction, are we disarming a violent criminal. or a potential victim. The proposed change in Wisconsin law eliminating waiting periods goes to the Wisconsin Assembly and then, hopefully, to Governor Scott Walker for his signature.
Background checks fail again–
Background checks are another gun-control myth. Making honest gun owners re-register their firearms is somehow going to stop criminals from getting a gun. Would it stop car theft if we had to go to the department of motor vehicles so I could drive your car? Mandatory background checks are being proposed in the Oregon legislature. Background checks are already mandatory in Washington state so we can see if they are effective.
Despite their gun prohibitions, the impossible happened this week in Thurston, Washington. A high school student brought a gun to school and started shooting. He was tackled by a teacher, and no one was injured.
The student was sixteen years old, so couldn’t own a gun.
The student was on probation, so couldn’t touch a gun.
Thank goodness Washington State has mandatory background checks so the student couldn’t take someone elses gun.. but he did. Detectives say the student wanted to commit suicide by cop.
It looks like gun prohibition doesn’t work, but that won’t stop bigoted anti-rights politicians.
– In New York state, any pretext is good enough for another firearms restriction. Now an Amish man is suing New York because of state gun laws. New York requires a background check whenever guns change hands. The background check requires a photo identification card. The Amish don’t have photo identification, so now they can’t buy or sell guns in New York. Tell me again who new york laws are protecting us from?? from the Amish?
– In Vermont, Bloomberg’s anti gun groups were pushing for mandatory background checks each time you took possession of a gun. They spent almost 138 thousand dollars promoting the legislation. Pro-rights groups spent only 20 cents for every bloomberg dollar.. and the pro-rights groups won. There are no mandatory background checks in Vermont. That took work from vermont gun owners. Well done!
Rob- 7th Circuit Upholds Assault Weapon Ban
On Monday, the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals upheld an Illinois city’s ban on so called assault weapons and high capacity magazines. This stunning ruling specifically dismisses the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and recent case law and instead relies upon the presumed feelings of the public. The majority of the three judge panel held that “if a ban on semi‐automatic guns and large‐capacity magazines reduces the perceived risk from a mass shooting, and makes the public feel safer as a result, that’s a substantial benefit.” In other words, if some the public can be convinced that the ban could make them safer, it’s OK; facts be damned. It’s hard to imagine a more incoherent legal justification.
In his dissenting opinion, the third panel judge wrote that the ruling is “at odds with the central holdings of Heller and McDonald: that the Second Amendment protects a personal right to keep arms for lawful purposes, most notably for self-defense within the home.”
This issue will almost certainly go before the Supreme Court at some time. For the citizens of Highland Park, Illinois, and of this nation, we can only hope it’s soon.
John – Why do I have the song Feelings running through head. “Feelings, nothing but feelings, oh, oh, oh”
Gary- Two judges side with the politicians to give them more power. Judges say all it takes is a good sounding headline to justify disarming the public. The uninformed public will “feel safer” after they read the political spin.
Anti-Gun Researcher Refuses to Debate Dr. John Lott
The research director for Bloomberg’s astroturfing Everytown for Gun Safety, recently refused to debate gun law researcher John Lott. While we can’t blame Bloomberg’s mouthpiece for being chicken, after all, Dr. Lott is a force of nature with facts and statistics, his refusal to talk face-to-face is telling: antis just don’t have the facts on their side.
C-SPAN invited both gentlemen to discussed a recent Pew Research Center study that found more Americans now think protecting gun rights is more important than controlling gun ownership. Everytown’s Mr. Alcorn declined to appear at the same time as Dr. Lott, resorting to personal attacks to explain his refusal. Alcorn was allowed to appear after Dr. Lott, completely eliminating every possibility of give and take.
Lott said he was disappointed someone from Everytown wasn’t willing to discuss the Pew Center’s findings. The Pew study showed Americans who had once worried about crime and favored strict gun control, now wanted no more laws or even to loosen gun restrictions. “In short, we are at a moment when most Americans believe crime rates are rising and when most believe gun ownership — not gun control — makes people safer,” wrote Pew’s Andrew Kohut. “Every country in the world that’s banned guns has seen an increase in murder rates,” said Dr. Lott, president of the Crime Prevention Research Center and the author of “More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws.” Lott said that with more stories about defensive gun use being distributed in the new media, people are catching up to research on the issue. He reiterated that predictions of gun control advocates have never come to pass.
Spreading the word of lawful defensive gun uses is a big part of what we do here at the Polite Society Podcast. It seems we are helping to make a difference.
Michael Moore Relies on the 2nd Amendment?
Big screen fabulist, virulent anti-gunner, noted hypocrite and left-wing barking moonbat Michael Moore may be supporting Michelle Obama’s claim that chronic obesity can lead to early-onset senility.
Very early Thursday morning, the big chunk took to Twitter to demand the immediate release of every African-American in prison for drug or nonviolent offenses. For his next belly-flop into insanity, Moore imperiously demanded that all police instantly disarm. Oddly enough, he justified that stupidity by noting; “We have a 1/4 billion 2nd amendment guns in our homes 4 protection.” Although true, that’s very odd reasoning from someone who wants the public’s firearms seized at gunpoint by the police. However, apparently even that blind pig can find an acorn of 2nd Amendment truth once in a while.
Go to bed Mikey, you’re drunk on yourself.
It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. Upton Sinclair
Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our interview segment.
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Segment 3 Interviews
Jeff Street teaches firearms safety at his church.
First Baptist Church Naples
3000 Orange Blossom Drive
Naples FL 34109
Do you charge? Free. Can’t charge when we use the church buildings.
How long have you been teaching at the church? About 2 years
How many attend the classes? 10 – 45
What is the goal of the class? This class is a great refresher for those current firearm owners and a wonderful introduction for those who are seeking information to start their firearm journey.
Emphasis on Dry Practice Training drills you can do at home to improve your fundamental skills including but not limited to grip, stance, trigger press. We also work on safe handling while drawing from holster, strong hand to off hand gun transitioning, etc. We also discuss personal defense ideas and issues. Mindset, The Law and Physical Skills.
What equipment do you use? Blue Guns, SiRT Laser Pistols, Train Safe Barrel Blocks, Clearly marked dummy ammo (no live ammo is allowed in the classroom), LASR software from centroloutions using Infrared cameras and infrared SiRT pistols.
What is the overall reception to the training? They like it very much. They also come to our live fire classes at LouLand Gun Club. We put on Scoot and Shoot events at least twice a month. The scoot and shoot is competition with yourself. Some come to improve their competitive skills and some come to practice their self-defense skills. Some do both on the same day.
What are your credentials? We have instructor certifications from; the NRA, Defense Training International John Farnam, RangeMaster Tom Givens, and Gabe Suarez.
Contact Jeff Street at Step by Step Gun Training
Laura Carno’s blog post on legislative stategy- No, I Will Not “Shut My Pie Hole!
Laura’s other websites are-
I am created equal.
Segment 4 DGUs
(WHY DO WE WANT TO LIST EXAMPLES OF WHAT NOT TO DO? -ROB)
I see it as part of our charter to teach and inform. I think it is an important story, as long as this type of issue is not overdone. However, I could certainly be wrong – I’m married after all. 😉 Dan
XX- The news media won’t call it a defensive gun use, but we saw it in Ferguson, Missouri. We saw it again this week in Baltimore, Maryland as well. We saw stores smashed, looted and burned during riots. We also saw store owners protect their businesses by standing there with a firearm.. and with no shots fired.
A Baltimore Sun reporter left his Crips gang member protection and was maced by a looter demanding his cell phone. The attack was stopped when the reporter ran to a store owner with a shotgun. More guns, less crime.
Tennessee Homeowner Shoots Robber
An East Knox County, Tennessee homeowner was startled awake early Wednesday morning by the sound of breaking glass. From his bedroom, the homeowner saw an intruder climbing through a living room window. The owner fired once, and the robber fell backwards. Police found the perpetrator dead on the porch.
The late James Melvin Vinson had accumulated an extensive criminal record in his 40 years, including multiple theft and drug charges. At the time of his final crime, he had two outstanding warrants; for theft and for violating the parole that put him back on the street once again. Mr Vinson was the very definition of an outlaw; largely unrestrained by the legal system.
The homeowner is not expected to face charges. Under Tennessee’s Stand Your Ground law the man was within his rights when he used a gun to defend his home and his family.
Misuse of a Citizen’s Firearm
With rights come responsibility. A North Carolina man failed to use his rights responsibly in a shoplifting incident at a store. A man ran from the Beasley Power Equipment store with a pilfered a chainsaw. The thief jumped into a vehicle with two others while being pursued by the store owner’s son. They sped off after the son brandished the pistol and ordered them to stop. Two shots were fired at the departing vehicle and the driver was hit in the head. The store employee reported those facts to a 911 operator, along with an admission that he had seen no firearm. Their conversation, of course, was being recorded.
Our DGUs usually show the proper lifesaving use of firearms. For educational purposes, we do comment when their use could have been better. As such, we must point out when someone is legally and morally wrong when employing a weapon.
Most states hold that firearms can only be used in the defense of one’s self and others. A fleeing thief is simply not a danger to the CCW holder. Only a few states allow deadly force in defense of property; North Carolina is probably not one of them. In any case, a chainsaw cannot be equated with a human life. The pistol owner simply should not have fired in that situation. He should have been a good witness and reported the license plate numbers to the police.
The driver has been hospitalized in critical condition, his two confederates charged with felony theft. At this time, the shooter is under investigation by the district attorney. The shooter and his business will almost certainly face civil lawsuits. Self-defense classes like Massad Ayoob’s MAG 20 would have would have certainly made this mistake less likely.
Homeowner Shoots Two in Second Home Invasion in a Week
In the warped world of the criminal, they can come to feel they own something merely by desiring it. This can lead to repeated, seemingly improbable, attempts to possess the thing. This may be what happened to a California homeowner this week.
In the normally peaceful Pittsburg, California neighborhood, a homeowner shot and killed two home invaders Friday evening. This was the second time in a week that their home had been a burglarized. In the earlier incident, four people had been arrested. At this time, it is not known if the two deceased were somehow related to the earlier incident.
A neighbor wondered if there was a the connection between the two home invasions. “There’s no way of knowing,” he said. “They broke in and ransacked the place, and maybe they saw something they liked and came back.” “If I was in (the homeowners) position, I would have done the same thing,” he said.
Salt Lake City Warning Shot
A his and her burglary team broke into a pricy Salt Lake City area home Monday morning. Alerted by the family’s dog, a neighbor called 911 and the homeowner grabbed a gun. At one point, the homeowner fired a warning shot, chasing the duo out of the house – and straight into the arms of the arriving police. Authorities report that the suspects have previous criminal histories.
Warning shots are rarely a good idea. The self-defense use of a firearm is usually limited to life or death situations. If the victim has time for a warning shot, almost by definition the situation cannot be that critical. That bullet has to go somewhere, perhaps threatening someone in the home or some distance away. And the victim has thrown away a significant portion of their life-saving device’s resources.
Quality formal training may have kept the homeowner from making this possible error. That being said, we commend the homeowner, the neighbor and police for the happy resolution to this home invasion.
Store manager shoots would-be robber in East Houston
The manager of an East Houston Cash-n-Carry was assaulted in the front door of his store Thursday morning. A robber put a gun to his back and demanded his cash. It apparently wasn’t the manager’s first rodeo, as underneath the package in his arm – he held a legally concealed handgun.
In that extreme situation, the manager used his gun and put two or three shots into the chest of the armed robber. The robber died at the hospital. An accomplice may have fled the scene in a getaway vehicle.
The robber paid the ultimate price for nothing, as the manager’s bag didn’t contain the hoped-for cash, instead only toiletries. To the good, the manager was able to stop the theft of his own life through his foresight and preparedness.
Utah CCW Stops Carjacking
A Utah CCW holder stopped a carjacking at a Macy’s in Orem, Utah on Saturday and ended a crime spree. The unidentified CCW holder, a 31 y.o. male, had been shopping and came out into the parking lot to see a woman screaming as she was being pulled out of her Mercedes. The carjacker had stolen a truck earlier and was “trading cars”. The CCW holder ordered the carjacker out of the car. The carjacker then lunged at the man and tried to take his firearm upon which he was shot and killed. Police are treating this as a legitimate use of deadly force and are not charging the CCW holder. The carjacker, whose name is being withheld pending an autopsy, was wanted on several felony warrants. Police are searching for two other accomplices who fled.
Houston CCW Stops Carjacking
Wednesday evening a man was sitting in his vehicle in downtown Houston when two men asked for a ride. The motorist naturally refused and the two men left, but they came back. At gunpoint, the driver was ordered to kneel behind the car. When both men got in, the victim drew his legally possessed CCW and fired at the driver. The 30 year old carjacker died a short distance away, his accomplice escaped on foot.
The case will be referred to the grand jury to determine what, if any, charges will be filed.
Man Shoots Attacker With Attacker’s Gun
And lastly, a hapless New Orleans thief was shot with his own gun after his armed robbery attempt went dramatically sideways. The intended victim was having none of the assault, won the struggle for the gun, and immediately employed it in self-defense.
Good on the victim for turning the tables on the feckless thief. However, it’s usually best if you bring your own concealed weapon, rather than relying on the perpetrator to supply one for you.
We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com Please take a minute and share them with a friend.
Segment 5 Show close
Listener e-mail discussion
We got this comment on our website and we thought that we would share it.
Great show. I was surprised to hear that more firearm genre radio programs could not be recalled, so allowe me. There is the “Lock Stock and Daria” out of Rhode Island (local), “On Target” broadcasting out of Illinois (local), Georgia Carry.org out of Atlanta (Local), now these are just off the top of my head. But you all are correct Gun Talk was the first nationally (key word) syndicated radio show and it was decades before they were challenged. As with National Media’s bias towards gun self defense stories, what they are not realizing or unwilling to realize is that local media has to report such events in their news cycle. What happens is average Joe one night watches the local channel 5 and learns of a single mother with two kids suffer a home invasion possibly ending with death, the following week average Joe watches a story of an 85 year pistol packing Ethel putting six in a bad guy saving her sick husband’s life. Now average Joe starts to think, and begins to talk to friends and so on and so on, the whole time national media sit in their New York bubble believing they are controlling the message, and fortunately with new gun friendly media that is no longer a true statement.
Keep pumping them out, I’ll keep listening.
Paul- Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?
Rob- I asked the question, How Does a Business Survive a Riot? We saw it in Los Angeles. We saw it in Ferguson. Now we’ve seen it in Baltimore. I have answers from Charles Heller, Dave Cole, Miguel Gonzalez, George Hill, Stephen Wegener, Ben Branam and Layla Sumners. You can find their answers at SlowFacts dot wordpress dot com
John do you want to mention anything off of your No Lawyers – Only Guns and Money blog you would like to talk about?
I just want to quickly mention two posts that are related. First, I posted about Lonnie and Sandy Phillips. They were the plaintiffs who are now liable for attorneys’ fee for having sued Lucky Gunner and Sportsman’s Guide. We expressed some sympathy for them in the podcast last week. Turns out they are Brady Campaign employees and have been since 2013. Second, I did post the first of my Bad Apple Lawyer series featuring Prof. David Kairys who developed the public nuisance theory that was used in many municipal lawsuits against gun makers.
Both of these and more can be found at my blog. The address is onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com
We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is a big part of what you get to hear.
Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today. co-hosts, will you be with us next time? I’m looking forward to it. Until the next time…
Gary: stay safe,
Rob: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.
Mention advertisers, Concealment Solutions, Crusader Weaponry and NJ2AS. Firearm Safety Institute
(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?
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