Episode 259 – Military Surplus

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Saturday, August 9th, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk with Ken Kowalski of Rimfire Podcast.
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we also talk with Fil Thy about military surplus rifles
Gary: I’m Gary Harpster. We have our regular news and DGUs, so climb aboard.
John: strap in
Rob: and hang on!
Paul: Episode 259 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant
JohnsonJohn – I had planned to go to the range today to sight in a couple of rifles. However, we had tons of rain. Probably as much as Rob gets in half a year out in California.

Rob – I took one of my new students to several ranges so she could see what is out there for sport training.  She saw a steel shoot, IPSC, USPSA and an IDPA match.  That was this morning.  I have to leave the show early for a private training class tonight.  It is called an ATF event; shooting, then drinks and cigars.

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Seg 2- News


Paul- You might remember that principled man of the people, Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper.  The Governor made another unplanned confession on video.  It turns out that Colorado sheriffs often earn less than their deputies.  This is because there are separate pay scales for hourly employees and for elected officers.  Hickenlooper said he agreed the pay gap was a problem.  Hickenlooper also said his hands were tied because his big donors, his bundlers, told him not to touch this issue in an election year.

This proves that campaign money talks in Colorado, and voters get lip service from governor Hickenlooper.

John- Governor Hickenlooper also said he was for the right of self defense.. before he was against it.

Paul- There was a recent conference in Washington DC discussing concealed carry on campus.  The bad news is that many campus administrators oppose armed self-defense.  The good news is that we don’t have to speculate how young armed men and women behave.  The administrators have fears, while we.. have.. data!

There have been no reported problems with permit holders in the nine states that allow permitted concealed handguns on campuses.  Those states are Colorado, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Mississippi, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Utah, and Wisconsin.  In addition, Michigan and Texas provide data on permit revocations based on the permit holder’s age.  Experience shows that college age permit holders are as responsible or even more responsible than older permit holders.

John- Here is some perspective on that data from Florida and Texas. The rate of all crimes committed by police is about 6 times higher than the rate for concealed license holders in Texas.. and the rate is about 10 times higher than for license holders in Florida.  Much of the gun control debate focuses on things that might possibly go wrong.  Thanks to the work of Doctor John Lott at the Crime Prevention Research Center, now we know.

CC revocation by age


Matt- You said that Florida CCL holders are safer than Texas licence holders when compared to the police.  I looked at the data, and I can hear Rachel tell us that CCL holders from Texas are much safer than those from Michigan.  Yay Texas!

Matt- Campus administrators think they are a law unto themselves.  Boise State University in Idaho has a policy asking students and faculty to call 911 if they see a gun on campus – even if the firearm is carried legally.  Parrish Miller, a policy analyst for the Idaho Freedom Foundation, said “This is just such an outrageous policy.  We wouldn’t accept this at any other place in our society.”  Miller is concerned about the school’s insistence that students or faculty who see exposed firearms should call the police, who will then check if the weapon carrier holds the proper license.

John- I guess the school want us to call in the location of all the police on campus.  Yeah, sometimes the police wander off to the donut shop and get lost.

Paul- This story is about Maryland’s war on women.  It is easier for a Maryland business owner to get a concealed carry license because he carries cash, than for a woman to receive a license because she fears she may be attacked by an ex-lover.  More Maryland women have recently applied for state permission to own a handgun, but they are seldom allowed to carry for defense of themselves or their family.

Matt- That is bigotry against women and gun owners.

John- It looks like former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg is going after any pro-gun politician he can find. Bloomberg’s anti-gun political action committee just bought $150,000 in ads to target outspoken gun rights activist Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke.  In response to the news of Bloomberg’s ads, Clarke said in a statement: “I trust the voters. The voters can’t be bought.”  The ad buys by Bloomberg’s PAC come on top of $400,000 in media ads purchased by the Greater Wisconsin Committee to try to beat Clarke, who is seeking his fourth term in Tuesday’s Democratic primary election.  Wisconsin gun owners, Sheriff Clark needs your help.

Paul – One does not need to be a Wisconsin resident to help out Sheriff Clarke. Plus this goes to show that it isn’t just Republicans who care about gun rights.

John- I dislike noisy neighbors, so this is good news.  Hunters in Florida may soon be able to shoot without waking the dead in several adjacent states.  A proposal from the Florida  Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission would allow hunters to legally use mufflers on their firearms when they hunt deer, turkey, gray squirrels, rabbits, quail and crows. Supporters say they can protect hunters’ hearing and irritation to their neighbors.  Opponents say we must muffle our vehicles so they don’t bother people, but muffled firearms are a danger to everyone because we won’t be deafened by them.  The proposal will be considered during the Commission’s meeting in September.

Paul- Firearm mufflers are required is several countries, and outlawed by some states in the US.

Paul- Can you shoot as well as a retired police officer?  The Los Angeles Police Department instituted a qualification course so they could grant concealed carry licenses to retiring officers. The course is fired at a man sized B-27 target at a distance of 7 yards.  There is no time limit to shoot the 10 round qualification.  All rounds impacting anywhere on the body and head will receive full value and rounds impacting upon the arms are half value.  A score of 70 percent is required to pass.

John- New Jersey Assemblyman Ron Dancer introduced a bill to bring some relief to gun owners traveling through New Jersey.  Quote “The sentences are mandatory. There’s no discretion with the judge or the court, no discretion, mandatory prison term.  It is unreasonable for anyone to be expected to be aware of all of the nuances of every gun law in every state.”

Dancer’s bill would give judges the option of not sending someone like Shaneen Allen to prison if the person from out of state is caught with a gun in New Jersey.

Paul- In Arizona, the police need a reason to frisk and search for firearms during a routine contact with a citizen.  The Arizona Supreme Court ruled that police cannot frisk a citizen unless they think the person is engaging in criminal behavior and is armed and dangerous.   The high court wrote that “police interactions with members of the public are inherently fluid, and what begins as a consensual encounter can evolve into a seizure that prompts Fourth Amendment scrutiny.  A reasonable person would not have felt free to disregard (the command to be frisked) from a law enforcement officer.. Officers must reasonably suspect both that criminal activity is afoot and that the suspect is armed and dangerous.”

Gun Quotes
“God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it.” – Daniel Webster

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this
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Segment 3 Interviews

Segment 4 DGUs

Paul: Davion Smith is familiar with violent crime.  He had a lengthy arrest record.  The 14 year old Davion Smith was already a convicted felon with two convictions for armed robbery, a conviction for battery on a public or school employee, and a conviction for domestic burglary.  Smith and two others were taunting Virgis Canteen after Canteen accused them of robbing his apartment in Lakeland, Florida.  The argument escalated and Smith drew a handgun.  Smith is not allowed to have a handgun because of his age.  Smith is not allowed to have any firearm because of his prior criminal convictions.  Mr. Canteen was hit twice and then returned fire. The teen was pronounced dead at 8:25 p.m. at Lakeland Regional Medical Center.

Matt-The Wayne County, North Carolina, Sheriff’s Office says a woman will not face charges after shooting an alleged burglar at her home early Thursday morning. It happened around 4:30 a.m. on Providence Church Road in Goldsboro. Deputies said 28-year-old Paige Ham heard a noise at the back of her home and saw a lock was missing from a storage building out in the backyard. Ham had a roommate call 911 and went out with a gun to see if anything was stolen. That’s when 28-year-old Christopher Todd Brogden allegedly rushed out of the building towards her. Ham fired her gun, hitting Brogden. He was last reported in stable condition at Vidant Hospital in Greenville… (All’s well that ends well. Arizona does not adjust for daylight savings time so I’m uncertain how readily one could see that a lock was missing from a storage shed in North Carolina at 4:30 a.m. without illumination. How much risk would have there been in simply awaiting the response to the 911 call?)  http://abc11.com/news/woman-shoots-alleged-burglar-in-goldsboro/246910/

John – Kayla Walker of Enigma, GA  has a message for people who are the victims of a home invasion – fight back with everything you have. In her case, it was a hammer, a shotgun, and her hands. Tuesday afternoon, two men forced their way into her new home where she resided with her 10 month old son. After one man knocked her to floor and then straddled her shouting racial slurs, she head-butted him, grabbed him in the privates, and then choked him semi-unconscious. He revived after she pushed him off of her and starting fighting her. That’s when she hit him several times with a nearby hammer in the head and ribs. She then ran, grabbed her son, and retrieved her shotgun. “He said, ‘This is my new house. I’m here to stay.’ I said, ‘Not at this residence.’ I put the gun to his face and the gun clicked and he ran,” she said. Walker told deputies that she tried to shoot the intruders, but there was no shell in the chamber of the gun. She reported that the man ran away through the woods, leaving a trail of blood behind him. While she had a number of bruises from the incident, she nor her son suffered any serious injuries.  She has since ID’ed one of the men involved in a police lineup.

We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Segment 5 Show close

Listener e-mail discussion
Brandon Combs sent us a link to his Buzzword Bingo game. We have the link in our show notes.fpc-buzzword-bingo1-791x1024

Rob, wrote about the DC City Council and how they responded to the Palmer case.  The article is called A Special Kind of Stupid in DC.   The article is up at Clash Daily, Ammoland and Rob’s blog, SlowFacts.

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the ( mid-week / weekend ) show…
Matt: stay safe,
Gary: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

Join your local civil rights group like theNew Jersey Second Amendment Society,Arizona Citizens Defense League,Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League,Florida Carry, Georgia Carry,Georgia Gun Owners,Grass Roots North Carolina,Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

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The Polite Society download app is outon Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Episode 208 – with Ken Kowalski and Brian Bolivar

Brian: Everyone knows an armed society is a polite society. This is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense, eh.

Paul: Welcome to The Polite Society Podcast recorded on Sunday, February second, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we’ll bring you our usual news and DGUs, but we have guests in the house. They know their way around. Did you guys find what you need? Drinks are in the fridge.
Brian Bolivar: I’m Brian Bolivar from Modern Rifleman Radio.
Ken Kowalski: I’m Ken Kowalski from Modern Rifleman Radio, and we have a lot of good new on the firearms front.
Paul: So climb aboard
Rob: Stap in
Paul: And hang on! Episode 208 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1
Catch up with each participant
Tom is away on urgent family business.
This is the 2 year anniversary of the show. Started Feb 3 2012.

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Seg 2- News

-Here is some good news.  Castle Rock Colorado read its new rule allowing open carry of a firearm in city facilities including parks and recreation centers.  The rule was read a second time and approved by the city council on a 4 to 3 vote after several hours of debate.  Castle Rock joins a growing number of Colorado towns and local governments who allow open carry.  Jeff Meek listens to the podcast and was at the meeting.  Jeff posted his comments on our facebook page and his blog.

-Tennessee Senator Stacey Campfield proposed a bill to stop local government’s from creating more disarmed victim zones in “gun free” public parks.  The measure passed the Senate Judiciary Committee 6-2.  Under Campfield’s proposal, permit holders would be allowed to carry, unless there’s a school function in the park. Republican Governor Bill Haslam has said he’s opposed to the legislation.  Sounds like our listeners from Tennessee have some phone calls to make.

-We have similar news from Kansas.  The Saline County Commission approved a significant change in employment policies.  The commission allowed county employees to carry a concealed weapon at work. Employees must have a concealed-carry permit, as required by law, and keep their firearm on their person at all times. That means employees are prohibited from storing or leaving a firearm in off-body carry bags.  Employees must also submit a copy of their concealed carry permit to the Saline County Human Resources Division.  Give Saline County, Kansas a hand.

A bill introduced in the Nebraska legislature would allow trained teachers and staff to carry a gun in school.  The bill’s sponsor, State Senator Mark Christensen of Imperial said, “If we really care about the kids, don’t we want to have the maximum security for them?” Schools in the state’s rural areas can be 15 miles or more from the closest police department or sheriff’s office. “Do we want to wait 30-40 minutes for a response and leave our kids at risk?” he said.

This sounds similar to bills we reported on in Arizona and Colorado.  Nebraska listeners, call your legislators.

-US Senator. Rand Paul proposed a bill to again allow guns in post offices.  The initial reaction from Democrat Committee Chairman Thomas Carper from Delaware was critical.  We don’t know how the votes stack up in the committee.  Senator Paul plans to revise sections of the bill covering Postal Service facilities housed within other federal buildings. Generally speaking, the measure would allow individuals to carry guns in post offices when otherwise carrying the weapon would be in compliance with state and local regulations.

The US Post Office sometimes claims to almost be a private corporation and sometimes more like a government entity as the subject suits them.

-It’s that time of year.. the season when year-end statistics come out about the growth of concealed carry.  The number of concealed carry licenses in Michigan rose statewide by 35%.  An overwhelming majority are in West Michigan.  Kent, Ottawa, Muskegon, and Newaygo Counties saw anywhere from 30% to 65% jumps in pistol sales, registrations and concealed pistol license applications in just one year.  The statewide number of women with concealed carry permits in Michigan increased by 57% to 33,096.  Way to go Michigan!

-Also in Michigan, here is a big city police chief who defends self-defense.  We covered the story a month ago when Detroit Police Chief James Craig publicly supported concealed carry.  Last Thursday, Detroit resident Sandra Hines challenged Chief Craig’s position during a Detroit Board of Police Commissioners meeting.  Hines claimed that arming citizens could lead to vigilantism.

Here is part of Chief Craig’s responce: “I did, in fact, say that good Americans, good Detroiters, if responsible, could get Concealed Pistol Licenses .. I said that because of my experience in four cities, having seen good Americans and good Detroiters that have CCWs and what effect it has had on deterring violent crime..”

“Most telling, there was research done by felons who were incarcerated, and what they said is that they’re more fearful of armed citizens than they are of police officers..”

“I do not condone vigilantism. I don’t support individuals arming themselves and doing the work of police officers. Police officers are trained to enforce the law..  I do see that a concealed weapon is an opportunity for self-protection only; not to go out and enforce the law.”

After Thursday’s Board meeting, Police Commissioner Lisa Carter and her husband, Tyrone Carter – both former police officers – said they agreed with Chief Craig.  “There are a lot of seniors in Detroit who are victims.  It’s not vigilantism for people to protect themselves.  That’s all we’re talking about: The right for people to be able to protect themselves.”

From the Good Cop files, Brevard County Florida Sheriff Wayne Ivey now offers a Self Defense Through Tactical Shooting and Decision Making class due to his county’s surge in gun owners.  “We’ve seen a huge increase in the applications for concealed weapons permits,” said Cpl. Thomas Gunter.  “If you are going to have a gun, we want you to know how to properly use it,” Sheriff Ivey said.  Hallelujah, this police officer gets it.

-Moving up the coast, here is more good news from Green County Virginia.  Sheriff Steve Smith offers training to thousands of citizens in his 60 firearms classes offered each year.  That helps explain why the number of permit applications increased to 660, double the number in 2012.  “We go over laws, the permit process, handling techniques, even proper selection, legal transport, what states they can legally enter once they have that permit,” said deputy Steve Keene.

I love it when a department gets it right.

-Some states say they can’t support a citizens right to self-defense because the paperwork is insurmountable.  For example, the number of Oklahoma handgun license applications increased from 40 thousand to 60 thousand last year.  In response, the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation announced an online application for handgun licensing and license renewals. Thank you for Oklahoma for stepping up and joining the modern online world.  I wish other states would follow your example.

-Representatives in the Iowa House granted preliminary approval to lower the minimum age that minors can use handguns under supervision.

This brings two things to mind.  First, a Department of Justice study back in the Clinton era showed that youngsters who were formally trained with firearms have a lower delinquency rate than other youngsters.  The second thing is that this training should be the prerogative of parents rather than legislators.  I know when, or if, my children are mature enough to train with firearms.

Rob: A friend sent in this second article about Iowa.  The group Iowa Gun Owners is raffling off an AR to raise funds and grow membership.  An anti-gun group got several Democrat Iowa lawmakers to condemn the raffle.  Iowa Gun Owners went on the offensive.  They posted the anti-gun article on social media and news outlets pointing out the anti-civil rights statements by Iowa politicians.  Instead of being shunned, membership and contributions to Iowa Gun Owners soared.

Way to go Iowa Gun Owners. And Mayor Bloomberg, I’ve got a feeling we’re not in California or Maryland any more.
I’d like this article even more if a listener from Iowa asked to have Iowa Gun Owners added to the list of state civil rights organizations.
Is that a hint?
I’d call it a plea.

Gun Quote
Rob- The Detroit Police Chief reminded me of this quotation from my friend John Longenecker, “Nothing puts the dignity in personal dignity (or the freedom in personal freedom) like the self in self-rule.”

Paul: That means we’re depending on our listeners to be great ambassadors for responsible self-defense. We’re going to go to break and then interview Ken and Brian from Modern Rifleman Radio. Hang on everybody. We’ll be right back.

Kathy Jackson quick tips.

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Seg 3 Interview Modern Rifleman Radio. Military Surplus and Civilian Marksmanship Program. Appleseed qualifies as a recognized CMP club and allows you to purchase discount surplus arms.

30-cal carbine. M-1 Garand. M-1A (M-14 platform), 1903 Springfield, 303 Enfield in its many variation (some are even in 30-06), Mosin-Nagant 7.62x54R is really .310 rather than .308 or .311 (Enfield) Handload components are now available.
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Segment 4 DGUs

DGU- Keith Dennis was walking to his home in Columbus Ohio late Wednesday night when two men came up behind him and demanded money.  They kept a knife to his back as they followed him home.  When they arrived, Dennis’s friend heard the two robbers, pulled his gun and chased the robbers from the home.  Police arrested the robbers a few hours later.

We could call this “knife beat unarmed man” and “gun beats knife.” Sounds like a loaded 45 beats Rock, Paper AND Scissors.

DGU- A 44-year-old Chicago man on crutches fatally shot an intruder who rushed him in his apartment.  The homeowner was awakened by his frightened daughter who heard noises coming from the back apartment.  The homeowner then got his gun when two intruders rushed him.  He fired once, killing a 31 year old intruder.  The second intruder fled.  Police found that the back door had been pried open with a shovel.

DGU- A Pensacola man answered the knock at his door at 2:30 in the afternoon.  That is when John Paul Phillips attempted to force his way inside.  The homeowner blocked the door with his body, and Phillips shot through the door.  The armed homeowner returned fire.  When they arrived, police found Phillips firearm laying on the sidewalk.  Phillips was taken to Sacred Heart Hospital for treatment of a shoulder wound and arrested on multiple charges including aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, shooting into a dwelling and using a firearm to commit a felony.

DGU-  A man wearing a dark-colored hooded sweatshirt, a mask, and white gloves presented a weapon and demanded cash at the small Delli Mart in northwest Roanoke, Virginia.  The store owner gave the man money, then the suspect demanded a box of cigarettes and grabbed a box of condoms.  The store owner grabbed his revolver and fired five times.  The thief was found by police in a nearby alley and taken to Carilion Roanoke Memorial Hospital.  He is charged with robbery and use of a firearm in the commission of a felony.  I noticed that the newspaper account already had a picture of the thief so I suspect he’s been photographed before.

Paul: The Politics and Guns Podcast download application is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes.  The link is in our show notes.  Yes, they will get you the Polite Society Podcast.

From a listener that didn’t leave a name,  for the state level 2nd Amendment rights organization list, here in the state of West Virginia we are proud to have the West Virginia Citizens Defense League (WVCDL)
Webpage  http://wvcdl.org
Facebook  http://www.facebook.com/groups/WVCDL

Rob: We had a listener e-mail us.  He enjoys the show, and likes how the show is changing with time.  Hey, Paul?  He says that Sticks and I are a good addition and expects the show will continue to grow and change with time.
Paul:  Good job.  I’ll double your pay.
Rob: Thanks for your comments, Jeff Armstrong.

Paul: You can contact the show by e-mail.  Paul@politics and guns.com, Sticks, Rob, Susan, or Onair to reach all of us.  Call 605-215-1438 to hear your voice on the air!
Rob: That’s 605- 215- 1438 and Canadian operators are standing by.

Paul: Roadgunner’s Mag 40 class in Conway, Arkansas at Shoot House USA is scheduled for May 15th thru 18th 2014 you can register here.  Tommy Nelson, Glen Tate and Sticks will be there.

Rob: Also please check out Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat training. Her next class is at Nighthawk Custom Training Academy in Centerton AR, March 1st and 2nd..

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?
Rob: I do.  I wrote a satire about a tweetfest between an anti-gun politician and an anti-gun activist.  It is called the Sneaky Talking Points About Gun Control.  They will rob us of our words before they try to steal our guns.

Rob: Also please check out the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.

Listen to other podcasts on the Gun Rights Radio Network, the Crusader Podcast Network, and Please go over and check out http://www.ahib.us/ Almost Heaven Internet Broadcasting out of Bayard, West Virginia is running the Polite Society Podcast from 7 to 9 am weekdays!

Paul: Join the National Rifle Association, Second Amendment Foundation, Gun Owners of America and Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.  Joining two makes you a hero.  Supporting all four makes you a super hero.  Not belonging to any of them means we won’t loan you any ammo if you run out.

Rob: Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League,Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Illinois Carry, Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners, Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, Texas Firearms Freedom,Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association

Paul, That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the mid-week show…
Rob, stay safe,
Paul, be aware,
Rob, and we’ll see you down the road.