Episode 405- Victoria Taft, Brian Hill, and Melissa Sutton

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/405.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment 1

3- Interview Segment 1: Guest Melissa Sutton

Links- http://toesinthesandtravel.agentstudio.com/

4- Interview Segment 2: Guest  Brian Hill

Links – http://rachealsrest.org/


5- Interview Segment 3-  Victoria Taft

6- DGU Segment:

7- Email and Show Close pt 1:

8- Email/Blog Posts and Show Close 2

1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast sponsored by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Tuesday, March 21st, 2017, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we have a personal protection story where a thug brought an ax to a gunfight.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about the far side of the gun counter.

Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone, and I’m excited to announce a hearing for constitutional carry in Texas!

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGUs we talk about husband and wife teamwork .. so climb aboard

Rachel: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 405  of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob-  I put out another episode of the Self-Defense Gun Stories podcast just before I went to the Rangemaster Tactical Conference in Little Rock, Arkansas.  I got to talk with some friends from Texas while I was there.  They are Bob Mayne, Ben Branam, Dr. John Edeen.  I talked with Jeff and Robyn Street from Florida.  We got to visit with Tom and Toby from the Armed Squirrels Project.  I also saw Paul Carlson, Marty Hayes and Massad Ayoob.  There were certainly some fascinating lectures and demonstrations.  Paul, I saw a very vivid demonstration on the flaws of competition shooting.


I signed up for a MAG20 in Austin, Texas.


John – I have been taking the NRA’s online basic pistol class in preparation for Basic Pistol Instructor Training this coming weekend. As part of that training, you have to take the online portion of Basic Pistol. I will say this – it is comprehensive! In other gun news, we have finally have our Form 4 for a suppressor approved by the ATF. It only took 9 months, 6 days or 279 days from start to finish. I am waiting for the dealer to ship it to me. As to my Form 1’s, I’m guessing 12 months because they were filed in July. Maybe the Hearing Protection Act will be passed in the meantime!



  • Texas GOLD was a success!
  • ALL HANDS ON DECK for a committee hearing for Constitutional Carry in Texas. It will be Tuesday, March 28. We are asking everyone who possibly can to come to the Capitol sometime that day before the hearing is over and simply register your position in SUPPORT of the bill. More info here: http://www.texasfirearmsfreedom.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/SupportConstitutionalCarryinTexas.pdf
  • Shooting / teaching news: I did a 3-day run n gun – it was a little long. I taught a mother-daughter MAG-20 – it was lovely. I scheduled my next public MAG-20 for May 20-21 – I am excited.
  • Activist tip of the day: Google is your friend.




Paul/Susan Going out to eat. Constitutional carry vetoed in SD North dakota has passed it and the governor has said he will sign


Promo about upcoming training classes here.

April 30th Beresford, SD new shooters day and “open” range day

(June 24, 25th 2017.  Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced.  9am -5pm both days. Richmond, IL)

(August 10-13, 2017. MAG-40. Sioux Falls, SD)

(August 26 & 27, 2017. Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced. Sioux Falls, SD)


FSOGC – Charlie Foxtrot


The Far Side of the Gun Counter



The retail gun game is a hard one. One of the most onerous parts of the job are the obsessive fans of one particular firearm manufacturer. They’re usually easy to identify; look for the slack-jawed, glassy-eyed and drooling. When you spot that customer standing at that counter — like that uncle standing under that mistletoed doorway — your soul dies just a little – again.  But, the customer is holding their turn-ticket like a Key to the Kingdom, and likewise it’s your turn in the barrel, so you mentally sigh, force a smile, unlock the drool-stained showcase with its well-licked glass, and show the customer his preciousssss.   

These customers are drawn to the expensive, overly pretty guns, with their shiny finish, mirrored flats, flashy grips and overdone details. They reach out with grasping claws, eager to fondle their object of desire. Many exhibit psychosomatic tics, like repeatedly mouthing the sale tags out-loud, while overemphasizing the words “Ultra”, “Super”, “Pro”, “Raptor” and “Master.” They obsess over the “Custom” monicker of the mass-produced guns. Others violently shake the firearm, manipulate the safety, repeatedly rack the slide, or compulsively drop and reinsert the magazine, as if to demonstrate some mastery over the powerful icon.


        And they always want to talk – at length. Many parrot the advertising on the backs of most gun magazines. They’re full of outrageous tales, like 300 yard one hole groups and instantaneous pinkie knockdowns. More often than not, they claim “my gun has never jammed.” This might actually be true, as few of those guns ever leave the sock drawer after purchase. These fan boys are inhabitants of the far left of the Dunning-Kruger Opinion v Knowledge curve, given all the ignorant nonsense they continuously and confidently spout. Excessive rolling of the eyes is a leading health issue of firearm’s salesmen.  

What these customers seldom do is buy. They’re gun tourists, firearm pilgrims. They simply want to bask in the awesomeness of their icon. They’re drawn to the worship like primitives to the golden idol. Deep in their desiccated souls, they must realize they are not worthy of their god-iron. So they drool, they sigh, they wish and they use the time of the firearm sales associate very extravagantly.

        Don’t be a Kimdiot. Or failing that, poke some good-natured fun at all those Smith and Wesson fanatics while they’re laughing at the Grip-Zone crowd, who are calling the SIGophants snotty for looking down their noses at the Ruger Kids. To plagiarize the 20th Century’s leading philosopher, Rodney King, “Can’t we all get along and hate on Hi-Points?”

That was from Charlie Foxtrot, a self admitted Glock fanboy, for the Polite Society Podcast.


Gun Quotes (tonight we have 2 gun quotes.

  • We don’t own these skills. We lease them. And if we don’t make payments they’ll be repossessed.- Glenn Plunkett
  • “A man’s rights rest in three boxes. The ballot box, jury box and the cartridge box.” – Frederick Douglass


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our Defensive Gun Use segment.



3- Interview 1


4- Interview 2


5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended to spark discussion and consideration, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.


Rachel- Home Invasion Actually Attempted Murder?   

What initially looked like an all too common violent home invasion, is now looking to be something much more sinister.

A seventy-seven year old was awakened by a loud crash in the night. A man had used a pickaxe to batter down an outside door. When the intruder destroyed his bedroom door with the pickaxe, the terrified resident resorted to his own weapon, and he fired the gun at the attacker. The Foley, Alabama police arrived at the residence, which also served as the office of Elite Marine, and found Sedrick D. Jemison Jr., 20, dead from a gunshot wound.  

The case was before a grand jury to  examine the claim of self-defense when additional facts came to light. Evidence placed Adam Klifton Bond, 32, and Katlyn Renee White, 20, near the crime scene. The two were arrested, with White being identified as the getaway driver and Bond labeled as the criminal mastermind of the crime. One of them later fingered Corey Deandres Marshall, 19, as being with Jemison during the home invasion. When axeman Jemison was killed, Marshall fled. All three may be charged with Felony Murder for the death of their fellow criminal.  Additional charges are possible for other as yet unnamed participants. Marshall has also charged for a strong armed robbery where he and Jemison hit and choked a woman who had given them a ride. They rewarded her kindness by beating her and stealing her wallet.   

The Baldwin County District Attorney’s Office has not disclosed why the elderly man was targeted for assault and probable murder. The motive may have to do with cash in the Elite Marine office. What is known, it’s very likely the 77-year-old’s use of his firearm saved his life.    


The anti-firearm Gun Memorial website “lit a candle” for the deceased thug. No mention was made of the man he was apparently about to kill.    


Rob- I bet it was hard for the victim to hear the police after the victim had to shoot the thug several times while shooting inside his bedroom.




Rob- Bringing a Rope to a Home Invasion

A Moncks Corner, South Carolina man was forced to defend his family when a violent criminal broke down his door. Rope found on the dead man points to darker plans in the home invasion.

  The resident, his wife and two small children were home when the doorbell rang. The wife opened the door to Juanita Marie English, 28, who was allegedly posing as a member of the homeowners association. English asked a few general questions, then waved toward a car. A masked, gloved man emerged armed with a pistol with a green laser. Seeing the approaching deadly threat, the woman alertly slammed and locked the door and screamed out a warning for her husband.

The armed man kicked open the door. However, the homeowner Justin Washington, 28, stood in his way. Fortunately for the family, the father had his own gun.   

Police arrived to find Elijah Akeem White Jr., 30, dead from four gunshot wounds. White had staggered out of the house to the walk where he died. English fled in the car, but was later pulled over for erratic driving. A search found the name badge she had used when posing as the HOA official. She could be charged with first-degree burglary and criminal conspiracy.

Don’t shed too many tears for the deceased thug, he came armed and ready to do violence. He came with rope in his pockets, showing an intent to tie up the residents. What he intended to do to the helpless man, woman and children can only be the stuff of nightmares. The Moncks Corner Chief of Police said; “There was no doubt he was there to do some serious harm to this family.” All this was in line with White’s long record as a career criminal, with convictions for burglary, weapons and drug possession and prison rioting.


“This homeowner had to do what was necessary to protect his family,” according to the Chief. As such, the county prosecutor will not charge the homeowner with any crime. As the coroner said; “In Berkeley County, if you kick someone’s door in and you get shot, as long as I’m coroner, that will be justifiable homicide.”


We will point out several important elements of this episode: First, the wife’s alertness and decisive action in slamming and locking the door, then shouting a warning to her husband. Second, the husband’s immediate and effective response to the sudden threat to his family. Third, the rapid availability of the life-saving firearm. In a household with two small children, we can certainly postulate that he had the gun on his person – he had little time for anything else. That’s the advantage of POGO. Lastly, we must reflect on what might have happened in areas with less rational laws and officials. The Washington family may have suffered grievous injury or worse by being disarmed by laws that didn’t affect the lawless in the slightest.  




Rob- You will not have time think in an emergency.  You will have time to execute a plan you prepared ahead of time.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close


Listener e-mail discussion


Email #1 with the subject line “Tacticool vs Grey Man”


John – Hello everyone.


I would first like to say I really enjoy your podcast and I have been learning a lot about many of the Second Amendment struggles across the country from you. Thank you!


I have had a CCW for over nineteen years.  I believe every person that decides to carry concealed has made a very personal decision and commitment to do so.  I have found peoples philosophy on concealed carry to be just as diverse as people themselves.


I would like to hear the groups thoughts about the pros and cons of TactiCool Vs.Gray Man carry.


If a bad guy sees a Sheep Dog he may rethink his plans and just leave.

But if you blend in with the sheep you have an element of surprise or possible escape and evasion.


Thank you for your thoughts and keep up the good work.


Brett from Oregon


Paul – this has shades of open carry vs concealed. Personally I have developed 2 “styles” around my concealed carry. #1, winter carry. Large jacket (right now my favorite is barn coat) and everything on an OWB holster (Gun/light/spare mag) with 1 spare mag in strong side coat pocket. Summer carry is a large hawaiian shirt with IWB and pants pocket for the flash.


I somewhat disagree with “the sheepdog gets shot first” and honestly think that when we talk criminals they aren’t the sharpest knife in the drawer anyway. If they are paying attention, you will likely be passed over BECAUSE you are paying attention, not because you are open carrying or look like you might be carrying. The criminals that we need to worry about the most are those that are high on a mind altering substance, to get courage up or whatever. Those are the ones who will act without much forethought and are not going to change tactics mid-stream when things around them change. Let’s face it the bad guy is usually looking to make a quick score and escape. The dangerous criminals are the ones with impaired cognition who will keep going after the stop command.


Rachel – um, are those my only choices? Because I take issue with being asked to pick either TactiCool or Gray Man. I carry both open and concealed, depending on what I’m going to be doing, what gun I want, what I’m wearing, and my mood. When I open carry in everyday life, I don’t think anyone would accuse me of looking TactiCool. I don’t dress so that everybody notices the gun first.


When I conceal, I almost try to make a point of looking more “tactical” (I hate that word – let’s say, prepared and ready to defend myself). My intent is not to infiltrate and attack. My goal is to AVOID harm. I feel the best way to do that is to be clear that it is not wise to pick me as a target. I don’t conceal for the element of surprise. I conceal because sometimes that’s the most practical way to carry for certain activities, or sometimes it wouldn’t be professional to have an OC gun.


Story of OC in downtown Austin


Rob- We’ve had several Open Carriers robbed in New Orleans.  I don’t OC alone.  I also don’t try to look like the police or military.


Paul- concealed carry badges. PLEASE DEAR GOD NO!

John- No one would accuse me of looking tacticool – I look ordinary which I what I consider grey man.




Gary – Today I would like to start a group discussion about carrying against an employer’s wishes and deep concealment options for men and women.

My question is inspired by meeting a pretty young woman who informed me she was disarmed for the day because she works at a local hospital I won’t name.

Here in Minnesota that policy does not hold the force of law, alike any private business that bans carry. (Excluding the scarce few state hospitals)

She told me she would be fired and shunned from the medical industry if she were found out because they all communicate with each other.

Are there any pro gun doctors or anyone in the medical field out there with some advice? I’m thinking that scrubs easily conceal a belly band and I’d rather be fired than dead if I’m forced to out myself.
Thanks in advance!

-Clayton again.


Paul – Dr Edeen


Rachel- Each of us is responsible for our own decisions. It’s just important to think through and understand what decision we’re being made, and what the costs are, and how likely we are to have to pay the costs. (1) Legality  (2) Breach of contract  (3) Disapproval of employer  (4) Threats to my life


Rob- Doctors told me they carry off body in the hospital.



Paul – Hello Crew,


After listening to Episode 403, I’d like to offer a quick correction about Lefse.

Although sometimes served at the same meal, Lefse and Lutefisk are indeed quite different.

Lutefisk is the nasty, lye soaked fish that no one in their right mind actually eats.


Lefse, on the other hand, is a fairly tasty Norwegian style flat bread, usually a dessert or snack.




This is the first time I’ve emailed, but I have had the pleasure of meeting all of you in person, with the exception of Charlie Foxtrot of course.

I love the podcast, and I’ve listened to almost every show for about the last 3 years.

Thank you to the entire crew for their time each week to provide a quality show.


I’m looking forward to meeting up with everyone again this year at GRPC.



(Not  a Norwegian, but a Minnesotan nonetheless)



Rachel-  Hi,


Do you consider dry fire drills valuable, and if so would you describe the drills that you

find most helpful? Only in the last several months have I heard about this type of practice, and when I follow some of the drills I found on YouTube for trigger control, I don’t feel they are helpful, but I must be missing something. I practice drawing from concealment and clearing malfunctions “dry”, and I know these have helped, but I’m struggling with the trigger drills.


Thank you very much! Love the Podcast.





Joshua, TX


Rob- The dry practice drill that I enjoy is to put a small dot on a post it note.  Then I put the post it note right beyond the end of my muzzle.  Now you can REALLY see if you shake as you press the trigger.  I also hold that position for 30 seconds while giving a really strong squeeze.


I also use a SIRT


Rachel- My favorite dry fire drill is punching out from ready, or from a draw – training myself to follow the sight out to target, get on target quickly. Warning: keep your crush grip. Danger of too much dry fire and no live fire is you lose the grip you need for recoil.



Rob – Hi,

I had a question about why are items like short barrel rifles and short barrel shotguns regulated by the BATFE? This seems absurd. In Texas, at least, we can buy pistols and rifles, so what’s the big deal over the size in between? Isn’t a SBR just a short rifle, or even just a long pistol? And what causes a pistol with a second vertical grip to be so dangerous that it has to be registered as a Class II weapon? When I asked a friend about an AR pistol he was interested in, he commented that it was just like a pistol, but if you put it up against your shoulder is becomes regulated, what? Sorry, I don’t have much background in the history behind BATFE and these laws, are they for real? I don’t get the logic.


Thank you. I love the podcast, and appreciate the time all of you put into it.




Joshua, Tx


Rachel – it seems absurd because it is absurd. 😛

John – There is no logic. Historically the NFA meant to ban handguns but there was opposition. As I understand it they forgot to take our SBR and SBShotguns.



Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Rob- When it comes to the field of gun-free zones, we can’t learn everything from our own experience. We can learn from experts who’ve concentrated the experience from many thousands of lives.   


The experts say time is critical in an emergency.  They say we are the only solution until help arrives.  We are the only first responders who can limit the damage caused by the next violent criminal.  Read more of the article, “What the Experts say about Self-Defense and Gun-Free Zones


That is up at Clash Daily.  Ammoland.  Slowfacts. That is at slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money


I haven’t been blogging as much as I’d like the past week or so. Nonetheless, I’d like to point our listeners to Judge Neil Gorsuch’s testimony regarding the Heller decision. I have it excerpted on my blog. He leaves Dianne Feinstein frustrated with her gotcha questions.


That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

Talk about CF

We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today.  So for Charlie Foxtrot, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)


Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rachel: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?


(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.


(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.


There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.


For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!


(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.