Episode 261 – Kyle Bacon

Introduction
“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Saturday, August 16th, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop
Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and we have Kyle Bacon of the Search and Assess Podcast with us tonight.
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about self-defense news
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have our weekly stories of defensive gun use
Gary: so climb aboard
John: strap in
Rob: and hang on!
Paul: Episode 261 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

Paul – I was in a loaner truck this week as my regular truck had some MAJOR repairs needed. I wish that I had known that it was going to die on Sunday as I basically took the day off to enjoy with my wife. I didn’t edit the podcast, instead I thought that I would find the time to do the editing and uploading of the show when I had some downtime during the week.

The truck that I got for a loaner truck didn’t have AC power and I had to rely on a tiny power inverter that I use for charging cell phones in my pickup. My laptop that I use for the show totally overwhelmed the inverter and I wasn’t able to power up and edit the show.

Rob – I met with an instructor for some more teaching instruction. Other than that I shot dry fire.

John – I picked up my Ruger Security Six revolver on Monday from my local dealer. It is a 2 ¾” stainless .357 Magnum with nice checkered grips.
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Seg 2- NewsNews_Partner_white

 

Paul – Tonight I want to talk a bit about 2 stories that seem extremely dissimilar however I promise that I will tie them together at the end so please bear with me. Many of you know that I am a NASCAR fan. Last weekend, right about the time that we were wrapping up recording the weekend show there was a horrible accident at a race track in rural upstate New York. A young local race car driver was killed in this accident. Now not to sound crass, however this is something that happens about once a month during racing season somewhere in the United States. Racing is a dangerous sport by it’s very nature, and sometimes racers give their lives in pursuit of the sport that they love. Two things are a little unusual about this incident. First is that the young man who died, 20 year old Kevin Ward, was out of his race car and walking on the track. Second is that the car that hit him was driven by three time champion and  NASCAR superstar Tony Stewart.

The media climbed all over this and was all but calling Tony Stewart a murderer. Video of the wreck played over and over on ESPN showing (in poor taste in my opinion) the death of this young man.  Even in sports media the fix was in pushing hard on Mr Stewart. What wasn’t right about this was this, it truly was an accident. If you were to watch the video of the incident you can see that the young racer, clearly upset, gets out of his race car and approaches oncoming traffic from the right side. The sprint cars that these racers were driving on this dirt track have extremely limited visibility on the right hand side. there is no way that at the angle that the young racer approached Stewart that he could have been seen.

In all but the media that is dedicated to racing, Stewart was vilified. A small group of media that covers racing full time tried valiantly to point out the situation, and even though the local sheriff’s office repeatedly stated that although the investigation is ongoing it looked as though there was no criminal intent and that no criminal charges looked to be filed, the media smelled blood in the water and went after Stewart with vicious intensity.

How does this relate to anything we talk about on the podcast on a regular basis you might ask? Well also about the time that we were wrapping up the weekend show last week another thing happened in Ferguson, Missouri. In this event 2 young males walked in to a convenience store and committed a strong arm robbery. they stole about $50 in cigars and assaulted a clerk. When a police officer contacted the 2 males there was a struggle and at least one shot was fired inside the officer’s police cruiser and one of the males died. Once again in this example there were a couple of things that made this story exceptional . First there were witnesses that claimed that the young man “had his hands up” and second because the police force is a majority caucasian force and the young male was black it was an easy story to insert race into.

I listened to reports of both incidents on satellite radio as I drove this week. The initial reports of the Ferguson story stated that when the officer (who has been named by the police department but out of our respect for the officer we will not name) approached 2 young men and attempted to get out of his car the 2 men attacked him pushing him back into his car and attempting to get his gun from him.  However once riots began all reporting that attempted to produce facts in the mainstream media died away almost instantly.

Now let’s look a little bit at the “witnesses”. One was the cousin of the deceased. The other was known to the deceased. Do you think that they might have a little bit of a case to make up a story? I heard that ONCE in a broadcast on satellite radio and then never again. This includes listening to what I would call fairly reliable news sources such as Fox News and BBC America.

In both stories I think everyone involved would have been much better served by a reporting of the facts and an plea to allow a true investigation to reveal the facts in the case. Unfortunately we got neither. I haven’t heard any reports of fatalities in the Ferguson area and that is a good thing, What I have seen is a display of a militarized police force that is very good at escalating the situation and a community that has been whipped into a frenzy at least in part due to inaccurate reporting.

Where I am going with these 2 stories is this PLEASE be careful where you get your news. Look for multiple sources and look for inconsistencies. I am sure that back in the days of Walter Cronkite that the tools were not available that we have now to do our own research and to find things as quickly as we can, however that is one of the blessings that we have now.

I can state as the owner and executive producer of the podcast that we do make every effort to be sure that the news that we present to you is accurate. I am very appreciative to all of you who listen to us for news and commentary. We will continue to do our best to get you the best information we can, and with your help sending us links and opinions in email I know that we will not fall prey to the “get the story quick to get listeners” disorder that seems to have fallen on the mainstream media,

Rob- Journalists sell the excitement of a headline.  There should be more to the news.  It isn’t clear if the news crews care what really happened on the street so long as they get and keep eyes on their advertisements. Armed civilians with a badge versus unarmed unbadged civilians.

Paul- There were riots in Ferguson, Missouri after a teenager was shot by a policeman.  There was also looting and buildings burnt to the ground.  After that, firearms sales in local gun shops increased by 5 to 10 fold.  Local citizens became concerned for their own safety when local convenience stores were burned down.  Citizens are buying everything from handguns, to rifles, to shotguns.  People who already own firearms were back go buy ammunition.  Customers who normally save up and pay with cash were putting the purchases on their credit cards.  One gun-store owner put it this way.  The good news is  that people are taking personal responsibility for their own well-being.  Citizens are admitting that even the best law enforcement can’t be everywhere for everybody.  It is also sad that we need to protect ourselves from our neighbors.

John – comment – they are even buying AR-15s for home defense even though Judge Catherine Blake said they had no use for home defense. Could it be that these people know something she doesn’t?

Break

John-  Police face a difficult job.  That job may be impossible in some of our larger cities.  A gang member describes the streets of New York.  Families are broken.  Working citizens and shopkeepers are harassed and disarmed by the city.  When he looks around, the only figures with any power are the armed drug gangs.  The kids on the street have figured out that only the fools obey the law.  That attitude is the result of failed economic and social policies.  That attitude will lead to high rates of violent crime, and it isn’t a problem that law enforcement can fix.

Rob Comment- I can relate to that, because my local government is seems like it is never out to help me, only to regulate and tax me.

John- In Washington DC, an off duty detective was shot in an attempted hijacking.  Another officer was shot during the search for suspects.  The municipal policy of disarming the citizens without a badge means criminals never fear their victims.. even if they victims are off duty police.

67 people were shot this week in Chicago.  New York City has stopped posting statistics on its shootings and murders.

Rob Commnet- Is that the most transparent administration on the east coast?

Gary- Mario Alejandro, 33, of Woodbridge, New Jersey is a Marine.  He served in the 2003 invasion of Iraq.  Last week he wore a T-shirt saying, “Keep Calm and Return Fire.”  Above the lettering was a modern rifle colored in red, white and blue.  Mr. Alejandro was stopped by a security guard at Six Flags amusement park because of his shirt.  The guard asked him to remove his shirt or buy a shirt and put it on to cover his T-shirt.  Mr Alejandro refused the request.  The guard checked with park management and then insisted Mr. Alejandro leave the park.

Alejandro said no veteran deserves the same treatment he encountered.  Quote “I fought for this country.  I laid in a hole for 36 hours with no sleep, and had friends die for this country and so the people here could have the freedom to [do] things like visit amusement parks. So when they told me that I couldn’t come in there with my family because of my shirt — a patriotic shirt — it hurt a lot. No other veteran should ever have to experience that.”  Six Flags entertainment operates 17 amusement parks. You can contact them here from the link in our show notes.

Rob- These words, “common sense gun-control”, they do not mean what you think they mean.  Our example of the day is from Representative Gabby Giffords.  She proposed a five step plan to stop gun violence.  Here are a few of her ideas-

Idea Two: “Authorize law enforcement to remove access to guns, with court oversight and plenty of protections to prevent abuse of this authority.” The owner of the guns would “only” get them back once he or she was “no longer a danger to themselves or others.”

Idea Three: “Require schools, including colleges and universities, to report violent or suicidal people to a court or administering agency.” These people would also have their firearms confiscated, but “could regain their firearms access…after a certain period of time.”

Idea Four: “Allow courts to issue ‘Gun Violence Restraining Orders.'” These result in temporary gun confiscation.

Idea Five: “Temporarily ban those who have been involuntarily hospitalized from purchasing or possessing firearms.”

I did not hear her mention mandatory reporting of the mentally ill by the county and state to the federal NICS system.  According to Giffords, common sense gun-control means confiscation.  You know, given the way most elected legislators act, they should be disarmed for mental illness.

Paul- Any of us with children know that kids take better care of their own toys than they do of other children’s toys.  It looks like the police in Des Plaines, Illinois have lost some of the AR style rifles they were given from the Defense Department.   The Des Plaines Police Department could be facing a federal investigation into the disappearance of two semi-automatic rifles.  Police Chief William Kushner admitted he doesn’t know where the two M-16A1 rifles went.  The weapons were given to the department in 2002 as part of a federal program to equip law enforcement agencies with military surplus weapons, and to help combat terrorism and drugs.  An internal audit required by the Defense Department failed to locate the two rifles earlier this year.  Chief Kushner, who took over as chief two years ago, said poor bookkeeping and widespread access to the armory are to blame for the guns’ disappearance.  He expected a closer look at his records and procedures from the Law Enforcement Support Office and Defense Logistics Agency, which manage the surplus property program.

John- Two bills advanced in the Michigan Senate that advance the right of self-defense.  Bill SB 977 passed in the state Senate, and helps active duty military maintain their Michigan Concealed Pistol License.  Many active duty Michigan citizens were losing their CPL because they could not apply for renewals in person.  The bill requires county clerks to accept applications and return renewals by first class mail.  This would also allow deployed military personnel to carry off base if their duty station has reciprocity with Michigan.

The next bill, SB 979, passed in the Senate Judiciary Committee by a 3 to 1 vote.  The bill realigned Michigan’s definition of “firearm” with the federal definition; such that “firearm” would be redefined to mean “any weapon which is designed to, or may be readily converted to expel a projectile by action of an explosive.” SB 979 also creates a separate definition for air guns. It also preempts local units of government from regulating air guns and spring guns on private property where authorization is given by the owner and the possessor takes precautionary measures to ensure that the projectile remains within the bounds of the property.

Both bills will be taken up when the legislature reconvenes in September.

Comment- It is probably worth calling your legislator’s office.

Rob- Here is more state news.  Governor Deval Patrick signed bills into law that further regulate long gun in Massachusetts.  The bills require Massachusetts citizens to receive permission from their police chief before they may purchase a long gun.  The bill requires that the chief appear in court to explain his denial of a Firearms Owners Identification Card.  It does not establish what constitutes good cause for denial or acceptance.  That means a potential gun owner must be willing to go to court to buy a gun.

The governor invited gun control activists to the signing ceremony and did not invite groups like the Massachusetts Gun Owners Action League.

Gary- Moving down to Connecticut, state Senate Minority Leader John McKinney lost his bid for the Republican candidacy to face Democrat Governor Dan Malloy in November. Senator McKinney was one of the architects of Connecticut’s restrictive 2013 gun laws.  Business man Tim Foley beat the incumbent senator by 11 percentage points.   Foley publicly supported citizens’ rights to bear arms.  Tens of thousands of Connecticut gun owners helped support Foley and helped get out the vote in this low turnout primary.  They lifted Foley to victory in all but one CT county.

Paul- Moving over to Minnesota.. You might remember last October when the National Football League issued a “no guns” policy at their events.  The Dallas Cowboys immediately announced that they would not obey that policy.  Now a judge has struck down the policy for off-duty Minnesota police officers.  Two police organizations challenged the rule, arguing that NFL policy cannot preempt state law. Police groups argued that even off-duty officers need to be armed at Vikings games, to protect themselves and the public.  The judge’s ruling applies only in Minnesota.

 

Comment- Why are citizens with badges at greater risk than citizens without badges?

 

Rob- Just when you thought that police officers were allowed to carry everywhere, we get to talk about Dallas, Texas.  Employees at the AMC 30 Theaters in Mesquite saw a police officer’s gun when the officer bent down to pick up a ticket he dropped.  The officer showed his badge and offered to show his ID, but the theater manager asked him to leave.  It seems we have not learned a thing from the Aurora Colorado murders in a gun free zone.

Gun Quotes -Paul- “In a perfect world, you wouldn’t need guns. This is not a perfect world.” – Sheriff Ben Johnson, Volusia (VO-LUSHA) County, Florida

Paul- Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this

Segment 3 Interviews
Kyle Bacon of the Search and Assess Podcast
Hand to hand is as old as man.  I study Kungfu.  Stay on your feet.

Segment 4 DGUs

John – A Jacksonville, Florida man and woman are in stable condition after a shootout with a home invader on Friday morning. A child in the house at the time was unharmed. The suspect, 21 yo Trevel Yates, however is dead.

The pair had just woken up when they heard a loud noise of someone breaking in the back door, Sgt. Michael Paul reported. The 50-year-old man fought with Yates and was hit several times with a blunt object. The man retrieved a firearm and exchanged gunfire with the suspect. The 60-year-old woman also got a gun and shot at the suspect.

WWRS?  What would Rachel Say.  Carry all the time or guess right.

Rob- A Visalia man is dead after being shot by a woman inside her home, Visalia police said Thursday morning.  The shooting took place after the woman had been attacked by a man she knew, police said.  46-year-old Albert Pena was declared dead at Kaweah Delta Medical Center about an hour later, Sgt. Damon Maurice said.  The woman, whose name was not released, was also injured and was taken to the hospital where she was treated and released… She and Pena were in a relationship and got into an altercation in which Pena assaulted her several times, police said.  While being assaulted, she got a gun from inside the home and shot Pena several times, police said.  She was not arrested and cooperated with police, Maurice said.  The case, which police said appeared to be self-defense, will be forwarded to the Tulare County [CA] District Attorney’s Office for review.

Gary- This Huntsville, Alabama home invader must have thought a life of crime would be easy. However, when the person he attempted to rob responded with his own firearm early Sunday morning, the unidentified home invader beat feet. Not only did he flee but he dropped both his gun and wallet as he was exiting.

Paul- This is the kind of DGU I like.  Four women were sitting outside at a Tacoma, Washington wine bar.  51 year old Robert Anthony Rashe brushed up against their table, and one of the women asked him to step back.  Rashe flipped over their table and hit the women in the mouth, knocking lose one of her teeth.  A male customer saw the fight from inside the wine bar.  He stepped outside and told Rashe to leave the women alone.  Rushe pulled out a 12-inch-long knife and walked toward the man.  An employee of the wine bar saw the group frozen in place and facing Rashe.  Rashe held the knife in a fighting stance.  The employee pulled his concealed handgun.  He then ordered Rashe to drop the knife and lie on the ground. The police found Rashe held at gunpoint when they arrived.  Rashe was charged with two counts of second-degree assault, and one count of third-degree malicious mischief.

Rob-  No shots fired, and don’t bring a gun to a knife fight.

John- They are lucky Rashe was a crazy amatur.  A trained professional with a knife could have cut all of them.

Paul- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Listener e-mail discussion

Rob- This is from one of our listeners. He said, “Remember those “I am Trayvon” T-shirts? You know what we need? How about some T-shirts that say, “I am Shaneen”.

Ken S. from Phoenix in the Free State of Arizona.

Gary-
Here is an E-mail from TJ
Hey Paul,
Thanks for the talk on the show.
I guess I worded my last sentence wrong. It’s not necessarily that I think we shouldn’t have the 2 parties that we do, I just hate that, for the most part, we are almost forced into one or the other because, as you mentioned, it’s really the only way to make change. It’s just a conundrum when you have to vote for someone that disagrees with something you are for, based on the fact that they are for 80% of the rest of your views, or you could vote for someone that agrees 100% with you (I know, not gonna happen), but by doing that you are basically just wasting your vote.

Thanks Paul,
TJ

( DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is outon Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- I wrote about the judge’s decision outlawing modern rifles in Maryland.  The judge says  modern rifles are too lethal for civilians who don’t wear a badge.  She said modern rifles are only used for assault, and not used for defense.. yet, according to the judge, it is permissible that civilians with a badge carry these same modern rifles.  The judge is wrong.  The articles are up at ammoland and the SlowFacts blog.

( DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like theNew Jersey Second Amendment Society,Arizona Citizens Defense League,Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League,Florida Carry, Georgia Carry,Georgia Gun Owners,Grass Roots North Carolina,Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join theCanadian Shooting Sports Association and theCanadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the ( mid-week / weekend ) show…
Rob: stay safe,
Gary: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 259 – Military Surplus

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Saturday, August 9th, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk with Ken Kowalski of Rimfire Podcast.
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we also talk with Fil Thy about military surplus rifles
Gary: I’m Gary Harpster. We have our regular news and DGUs, so climb aboard.
John: strap in
Rob: and hang on!
Paul: Episode 259 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant
JohnsonJohn – I had planned to go to the range today to sight in a couple of rifles. However, we had tons of rain. Probably as much as Rob gets in half a year out in California.

Rob – I took one of my new students to several ranges so she could see what is out there for sport training.  She saw a steel shoot, IPSC, USPSA and an IDPA match.  That was this morning.  I have to leave the show early for a private training class tonight.  It is called an ATF event; shooting, then drinks and cigars.

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Seg 2- News
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Paul- You might remember that principled man of the people, Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper.  The Governor made another unplanned confession on video.  It turns out that Colorado sheriffs often earn less than their deputies.  This is because there are separate pay scales for hourly employees and for elected officers.  Hickenlooper said he agreed the pay gap was a problem.  Hickenlooper also said his hands were tied because his big donors, his bundlers, told him not to touch this issue in an election year.

This proves that campaign money talks in Colorado, and voters get lip service from governor Hickenlooper.

John- Governor Hickenlooper also said he was for the right of self defense.. before he was against it.

Paul- There was a recent conference in Washington DC discussing concealed carry on campus.  The bad news is that many campus administrators oppose armed self-defense.  The good news is that we don’t have to speculate how young armed men and women behave.  The administrators have fears, while we.. have.. data!

There have been no reported problems with permit holders in the nine states that allow permitted concealed handguns on campuses.  Those states are Colorado, Florida, Idaho, Kansas, Mississippi, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Utah, and Wisconsin.  In addition, Michigan and Texas provide data on permit revocations based on the permit holder’s age.  Experience shows that college age permit holders are as responsible or even more responsible than older permit holders.

John- Here is some perspective on that data from Florida and Texas. The rate of all crimes committed by police is about 6 times higher than the rate for concealed license holders in Texas.. and the rate is about 10 times higher than for license holders in Florida.  Much of the gun control debate focuses on things that might possibly go wrong.  Thanks to the work of Doctor John Lott at the Crime Prevention Research Center, now we know.

CC revocation by age

 

Matt- You said that Florida CCL holders are safer than Texas licence holders when compared to the police.  I looked at the data, and I can hear Rachel tell us that CCL holders from Texas are much safer than those from Michigan.  Yay Texas!

Matt- Campus administrators think they are a law unto themselves.  Boise State University in Idaho has a policy asking students and faculty to call 911 if they see a gun on campus – even if the firearm is carried legally.  Parrish Miller, a policy analyst for the Idaho Freedom Foundation, said “This is just such an outrageous policy.  We wouldn’t accept this at any other place in our society.”  Miller is concerned about the school’s insistence that students or faculty who see exposed firearms should call the police, who will then check if the weapon carrier holds the proper license.

John- I guess the school want us to call in the location of all the police on campus.  Yeah, sometimes the police wander off to the donut shop and get lost.

Paul- This story is about Maryland’s war on women.  It is easier for a Maryland business owner to get a concealed carry license because he carries cash, than for a woman to receive a license because she fears she may be attacked by an ex-lover.  More Maryland women have recently applied for state permission to own a handgun, but they are seldom allowed to carry for defense of themselves or their family.

Matt- That is bigotry against women and gun owners.

John- It looks like former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg is going after any pro-gun politician he can find. Bloomberg’s anti-gun political action committee just bought $150,000 in ads to target outspoken gun rights activist Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke.  In response to the news of Bloomberg’s ads, Clarke said in a statement: “I trust the voters. The voters can’t be bought.”  The ad buys by Bloomberg’s PAC come on top of $400,000 in media ads purchased by the Greater Wisconsin Committee to try to beat Clarke, who is seeking his fourth term in Tuesday’s Democratic primary election.  Wisconsin gun owners, Sheriff Clark needs your help.

Paul – One does not need to be a Wisconsin resident to help out Sheriff Clarke. Plus this goes to show that it isn’t just Republicans who care about gun rights.

John- I dislike noisy neighbors, so this is good news.  Hunters in Florida may soon be able to shoot without waking the dead in several adjacent states.  A proposal from the Florida  Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission would allow hunters to legally use mufflers on their firearms when they hunt deer, turkey, gray squirrels, rabbits, quail and crows. Supporters say they can protect hunters’ hearing and irritation to their neighbors.  Opponents say we must muffle our vehicles so they don’t bother people, but muffled firearms are a danger to everyone because we won’t be deafened by them.  The proposal will be considered during the Commission’s meeting in September.

Paul- Firearm mufflers are required is several countries, and outlawed by some states in the US.

Paul- Can you shoot as well as a retired police officer?  The Los Angeles Police Department instituted a qualification course so they could grant concealed carry licenses to retiring officers. The course is fired at a man sized B-27 target at a distance of 7 yards.  There is no time limit to shoot the 10 round qualification.  All rounds impacting anywhere on the body and head will receive full value and rounds impacting upon the arms are half value.  A score of 70 percent is required to pass.

John- New Jersey Assemblyman Ron Dancer introduced a bill to bring some relief to gun owners traveling through New Jersey.  Quote “The sentences are mandatory. There’s no discretion with the judge or the court, no discretion, mandatory prison term.  It is unreasonable for anyone to be expected to be aware of all of the nuances of every gun law in every state.”

Dancer’s bill would give judges the option of not sending someone like Shaneen Allen to prison if the person from out of state is caught with a gun in New Jersey.

Paul- In Arizona, the police need a reason to frisk and search for firearms during a routine contact with a citizen.  The Arizona Supreme Court ruled that police cannot frisk a citizen unless they think the person is engaging in criminal behavior and is armed and dangerous.   The high court wrote that “police interactions with members of the public are inherently fluid, and what begins as a consensual encounter can evolve into a seizure that prompts Fourth Amendment scrutiny.  A reasonable person would not have felt free to disregard (the command to be frisked) from a law enforcement officer.. Officers must reasonably suspect both that criminal activity is afoot and that the suspect is armed and dangerous.”

Gun Quotes
“God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it.” – Daniel Webster

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this
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Segment 3 Interviews

Segment 4 DGUs

Paul: Davion Smith is familiar with violent crime.  He had a lengthy arrest record.  The 14 year old Davion Smith was already a convicted felon with two convictions for armed robbery, a conviction for battery on a public or school employee, and a conviction for domestic burglary.  Smith and two others were taunting Virgis Canteen after Canteen accused them of robbing his apartment in Lakeland, Florida.  The argument escalated and Smith drew a handgun.  Smith is not allowed to have a handgun because of his age.  Smith is not allowed to have any firearm because of his prior criminal convictions.  Mr. Canteen was hit twice and then returned fire. The teen was pronounced dead at 8:25 p.m. at Lakeland Regional Medical Center.

Matt-The Wayne County, North Carolina, Sheriff’s Office says a woman will not face charges after shooting an alleged burglar at her home early Thursday morning. It happened around 4:30 a.m. on Providence Church Road in Goldsboro. Deputies said 28-year-old Paige Ham heard a noise at the back of her home and saw a lock was missing from a storage building out in the backyard. Ham had a roommate call 911 and went out with a gun to see if anything was stolen. That’s when 28-year-old Christopher Todd Brogden allegedly rushed out of the building towards her. Ham fired her gun, hitting Brogden. He was last reported in stable condition at Vidant Hospital in Greenville… (All’s well that ends well. Arizona does not adjust for daylight savings time so I’m uncertain how readily one could see that a lock was missing from a storage shed in North Carolina at 4:30 a.m. without illumination. How much risk would have there been in simply awaiting the response to the 911 call?)  http://abc11.com/news/woman-shoots-alleged-burglar-in-goldsboro/246910/

John – Kayla Walker of Enigma, GA  has a message for people who are the victims of a home invasion – fight back with everything you have. In her case, it was a hammer, a shotgun, and her hands. Tuesday afternoon, two men forced their way into her new home where she resided with her 10 month old son. After one man knocked her to floor and then straddled her shouting racial slurs, she head-butted him, grabbed him in the privates, and then choked him semi-unconscious. He revived after she pushed him off of her and starting fighting her. That’s when she hit him several times with a nearby hammer in the head and ribs. She then ran, grabbed her son, and retrieved her shotgun. “He said, ‘This is my new house. I’m here to stay.’ I said, ‘Not at this residence.’ I put the gun to his face and the gun clicked and he ran,” she said. Walker told deputies that she tried to shoot the intruders, but there was no shell in the chamber of the gun. She reported that the man ran away through the woods, leaving a trail of blood behind him. While she had a number of bruises from the incident, she nor her son suffered any serious injuries.  She has since ID’ed one of the men involved in a police lineup.

We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Segment 5 Show close

Listener e-mail discussion
Brandon Combs sent us a link to his Buzzword Bingo game. We have the link in our show notes.fpc-buzzword-bingo1-791x1024

Rob, wrote about the DC City Council and how they responded to the Palmer case.  The article is called A Special Kind of Stupid in DC.   The article is up at Clash Daily, Ammoland and Rob’s blog, SlowFacts.

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the ( mid-week / weekend ) show…
Matt: stay safe,
Gary: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

Join your local civil rights group like theNew Jersey Second Amendment Society,Arizona Citizens Defense League,Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League,Florida Carry, Georgia Carry,Georgia Gun Owners,Grass Roots North Carolina,Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join theCanadian Shooting Sports Association and theCanadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

The Polite Society download app is outon Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Episode 254 – Kevin Starrett, Luke Wagner and Kyle Coplen

Introduction- “An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
John: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Wednesday, July 23rd 2014. I’m John Richardson.
Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone and on tonights show we’ll talk with Kevin Starrett from the Oregon Firearms Federation.
I’m Rob Morse. We will talk with Luke Wagner of the Colorado Second Amendment Association.
Rachel: We have an update from Kyle Coplen of the Armed Citizen Project in addition to our usual news and DGUs, so climb aboard
John: strap in
Rob: and hang on!
Rachel: Episode 254 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

John – I’ve missed the last two podcasts so I guess I have some catching up to do. Last Wednesday, I got to tour PTR Industries plant in Aynor, South Carolina. They make the PTR-91 rifle. It is the civilian version of the HK G-3. I was able to interview Chris Petersen of PTR for a later episode. I also got to shoot the PTR-32 Gen 1 Plus in 7.62×39. In other news, Barb and I got married. If you read my blog, you may have heard me refer to the Complementary Spouse. Barb is more than a complimentary spouse now.

Rachel- I’ve had a houseful this past week and have spent most of my time keeping meals rolling for all my guests and taking care of the kids, but still found some time for gunpowder and lead. Instructed an Appleseed shoot in Waco last Saturday because my kid dragged me (proud of that kid!) and one of the participants let me shoot his K31. Loved it. =)

Rob- Dry practice. Planning to shoot IDPA this Saturday

Break
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Seg 2- NewsNews_Partner_white

Rob- Let’s start with some good news for the right of self-defense.  Philadelphia lost a large court case because they infringed on the rights of legal gun owners.  The city was ordered to pay 1.42 million dollars as well as the costs of administering the legal settlement.  The settlement runs to 11 pages.  Here are some of the highlights-

  • Philadelphia agrees not to disclose License to carry firearms applicant information either electronically or in-person.
  • The police department agrees to annual training for the License and Inspection Board of Review, and the Gun Permit Unit.
  • The city agreed to post a copy of the application process on their website.  This includes license applications and the appeals process.  The city must also submit a copy of the license appeals process to anyone who has their license denied or revoked.
  • The city no longer requires or contacts character references from license applicants.
  • The city will not ask if applicants already own a firearm.
  • The city will not confiscate a license or a firearm from a licensee unless there is probable cause that they are needed as evidence of a crime. If they are confiscated, then the officer must immediately provide a property receipt, which shall include the pertinent information for their return.

That is a good day for civil rights in Philadelphia.

The decision must irritate the Pennsylvania attorney general, and that is a good thing too.

Rachel- I don’t know the whole back story on this positive turn of events, but I know one thing: it happened because somebody got off the couch and did something.

Rachel-This last weekend, 40 people were shot and 4 were killed in the gun control paradise of Chicago.  Chicago politicians blame weak gun laws, but the real cause are the drug gangs who feed on social policies that resulted in broken families and economic policies that destroyed jobs.  Chicago politicians have company.

Rob- Weekend death toll in ny?  I called the new york deputy commissioner of public information and spoke to his office.  I also sent them an e-mail request for information about this weekend’s statistics.

John- This is an election year, so some ridiculous bills get passed and some reasonable bills never make it to a vote in committee.  A recent case is the rider to a congressional bill written by Representative Thomas Massie of Kentucky.  Massie is optimistic about Senate support for the language he attached that would dismantle the local gun laws in the District of Columbia.  The congressman is realistic enough to doubt the measure will ever reach the Senate floor for a vote.  Quote “Twenty rank-and-file Democrats in the House voted for the amendment, and I know Democrats in the Senate would vote for the amendment.. but I suspect Harry Reid will do everything he can to prevent that vote from happening.”  Senate majority leader Harry Reid did not respond to questions about Massie’s pro-gun proposal.  Neither did some of the vulnerable Democrat senators from conservative states, Senators such as Alaska’s Mark Begich, Louisiana’s Mary L. Landrieu, and NC’s Kay Hagan.  Massie’s amendment would likely have a Senate sponsor in Kentucky Republican Rand Paul.

Rachel- Here’s an issue that divides even strong gun rights supporters. A man open carrying a gun in a south Kansas City Walmart store alarmed shoppers early Monday.  Yes, shoppers were frightened even though open carry is legal.  A customer in the store called police to report the man.  The customer also reported the incident to the store manager. The store manager then asked the armed shopper to take his gun back to his car.  The gun owners was doing that when the police arrived. Kevin Jamison of the Western Missouri Shooters Alliance said that while open carry is legal, it doesn’t mean it’s always a good idea.

Rob- Friends, this is not how you convince the public that gun owners are trustworthy.  In fact, it is the opposite.  Your ounce of good intentions are outweighed by the ton of bad press.  Let me say this again.  It doesn’t matter how you see open carry; it matters how your audience sees open carry.  In the battle for hearts and minds, your audience gets a vote and you don’t, because it is their opinion we’re trying to change.

Rachel’s reply-  We are all ambassadors all the time.

John- The first Tuesday in August is almost here!  You might remember that Missouri Governor Jay Nixon vetoed a number of pro-gun bills after the legislative session passed.  There was also a proposed state constitutional amendment placed on the Missouri ballot.  The amendment added language protecting ammunition and accessories typical to the normal function of our firearms.  The amendment recently survived a challenge in the state supreme court, so Missouri voters may have a say in the right to bear arms after all.  The amendment gets voted on in the August 5th election.  Missouri gun owners, and their friends, get active.

Rachel- We reported several personal attacks at Target department stores since the company asked customers and staff to disarm.  Here is the first reported murder on Target property since their disarmament press release.  The disarmed victim was part of a night cleaning crew.  The victim was shot and transported to a local hospital where he died.  The assailant was a known gang member and later tested positive for being high on bath salts.

Rob- I hate it when a gun free zone fails and people die.

John – Beretta USA announced on Tuesday that they plan to move ALL production to their new plant in Tennessee. Previously, the new plant in Gallatin, TN was only intended for new production lines. Beretta USA said the reason for this was due to Maryland passing such draconian gun laws in 2013 and the anticipation that it will only get worse. The production of the Army’s M9 pistol will continue until all current orders are filled. They will be leaving their administrative, executive, and import offices in their Accokeek, Maryland location.

Rob- The polite society podcast is a little late in getting out the news, but I love giving credit when law enforcement gets it right.  In Ohio, the Union Township Police Department will host a Gun Safety Class for children from ages six through 13.  The two hour training class starts at 10 am on Saturday, July 19.  The class covers the nomenclature and safe handling of handguns, shotguns and rifles.  The class does not include any live fire training.  Donuts, juice and coffee will be provided.

Rachel- Gun Quotes
The gun control extremist has at least two things in common with the Islamic extremist. He has a willingness to die for his fundamental beliefs. And he has the sanctimony to demand that others go with him.” – Professor Mike Adams

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this
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Segment 3 Interviews

  • News from Kyle Coplen at the Armed Citizen Project
  • Interview with Kevin Starrett from the Oregon Firearms Federation by skype at 5:30 pacific!
  • Interview with Luke Wagner from Colorado Second Amendment Association

Segment 4 DGUs

Rachel- Bad choices sometimes have a happy ending, but there might be more to this story.  This home break in occurred in Carrick, Pennsylvania.  It was 2AM when two men fired through the front door of an apartment building and forced their way inside.  A 19 year old man and a 17 year old woman were in the building at the time.  The intruders forced the man into side bedroom.. the side bedroom where the homeowner kept a loaded shotgun.  Both intruders were shot.  One died at the scene.  The second intruder fell down the steps and was taken to UPMC Mercy hospital. His condition is unknown.

Rob- I hear Rachel’s comment, carry or hope you are lucky and guess correctly.

John- Sometimes there is no good solution.  40 year old John Mapp attacked his 38 year old sister.  The crime took place around 3:40 AM in West Philadelphia.   Mapp then attacked his 34 year old younger brother.  The younger brother is a paraplegic, but he remained physically strong enough to pull out his handgun and protect himself.  He shot his older brother once in the chest.   The older man was taken by police to the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania where he was pronounced dead. The sister was also taken to the same hospital for her injuries.

Rachel- There are millions physically disabled individuals who are attacked each year.  Some of the disabled can defend themselves.

Rob- Phyliss Law’s home had been broken into before.  That is why some of the windows were already boarded up in this Prichard, Alabama home.   Phyliss heard the thieves pry open one of her windows.  This time she told her granddaughter to hide in the closet.  The 63 year old grandmother wanted the the thieves to leave, but they turned on the lights and began to inventory her home.. again.  This time she was armed with a 9mm handgun.  She fired when one of the thief entered her back bedroom.  She fired again and one thief was stuck in the head.  Despite his wound, both thieves were able to flee.   Later, when the police arrived, they briefly handcuffed Phyliss Law.  She was released on the scene.  The juvenile victim and his accomplice were arrested by police.  The wounded teen survived his wounds.

Rob- Now Phyliss keeps her shotgun near her bedroom door.

Rachel- Here is a good Samaritan story from Hubertus, Wisconsin.  An innocent man was walking his dog when three Pit Bulls escaped from their backyard and charged at him. Dennis Williams lives nearby, and heard the victim scream for help. Williams saw the attack through his window and ran to help.  He tried to stop the attacking dogs with a baseball bat.  Quote “It was one of the worst things I’ve ever witnessed. The dogs were on top of the man and his dog. They were not going to stop. I first tried hitting the Pit Bulls with a baseball bat, but they wouldn’t relent. There was blood all over the ground.”  Close quote.  Williams drew his handgun and killed one of the Pitt Bulls. The other dogs then backed-away.  The man and dog who were attacked required treatment for severe bite and puncture wounds.

We say children are not trusted with firearms, yet we trust these same children to watch their siblings.

John- This San Antonio, Texas homeowner had been robbed before.  This time a 20 year old man broke into the home of a 70 year old man who was ready for him.  After the intruder broke into through a back window, the 70-year-old homeowner used his handgun to shoot the intruder three times in the leg.  Paramedics transported the intruder to the hospital, and he is expected to survive.  The homeowner was not expected to face charges, police said.

Rob-  Two home invaders in Jackson, Mississippi thought 2:30am on a Friday morning was a good time for a robbery. They thought wrong. Jonquez Porter, 19, is now dead and his accomplice Romelo Porter suffered a wound to the leg as the homeowner fought back. Police have not identified the homeowner but had this to say about the incident:

“”You’re entitled to have a weapon in your home and certainly you’re entitled to defend yourself and your home. Apparently, from all we know, this is what this homeowner did,” (Asst Police Chief Lee) Vance said. “The deceased suffered the consequences that come sometimes when you break into somebody’s house.”

Rachel- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Segment 5 Show close

Listener e-mail discussion
John- this in from a listener

Hey guys,
Love the show, and heard you are looking for feedback on what works/doesn’t work. I want to say my favorite parts are the DGU discussions because they give me examples to provide to others who do not yet appreciate the necessity of the right to own and carry a firearm.

Thanks for all your work.
Zach Esposito

Rachel- The Polite Society download app is outon Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

John- Also please check out Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat training classes.Her next class that has seats available is September 13th and 14th in Culpepper Virginia. Also remember that in September is the couples class in Centerton Arkansas with Jon Hodoway, Go to Cornered Cat dot com for info on her classes and details.

John- Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- Sheriff Gore is my sheriff and I reported on the victims in his county.

Rachel- Bob Mayne will be on our Saturday show. Bob and Ben Branam will also be doing a training class in Sioux Falls, SD in the spring of 2015. Tune in to this weekend’s show for details.

Rachel- Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

Join your local civil rights group like theNew Jersey Second Amendment Society,Arizona Citizens Defense League,Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League,Florida Carry, Georgia Carry,Georgia Gun Owners,Grass Roots North Carolina,Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join theCanadian Shooting Sports Association and theCanadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

John: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the weekend ) show…
Rob: stay safe,
Rachel: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 253 – Jeff Knox


“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Saturday, July 19th, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have an interview with Jeff Knox, Director of the firearms coalition.
Gary Daughetry: I’m Gary Daughetry, and we have our weekly stories of defensive gun uses
Gary Harpster: I’m Gary Harpster, and we have our usual gun news
Rob: so climb aboard
Gary D: strap in
Gary H: and hang on!
Paul: Episode 253 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

Paul: Museum story. My Son’s Birthday party story
Gary: I ordered a new left handed holster for personal and class training.
Break
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Seg 2- NewsNews_Partner_white

1 Paul: Nick Leghorn over at The Truth About Guns reports that Remington has pulled all information about the R51, the handgun released this past winter just before Shot Show, off of it’s website. I REALLY wanted to like this gun, but was concerned when there were no examples available to fire at media day at the range. If true that it is going away  it is too bad. I really liked the style of the gun, it was kind of retro and futuristic at the same time. When I held the display model at the Remington booth it was hard to make the grip safety work reliably and the red dot laser was even harder to make actuate, but I thought that those things could be worked on. Alas it looks like Remington is not going to give the R51 a second try.
Comments?

2 Rob- California Governor Brown signed a bill into law banning single shot handguns. This is an anti-gun solution in search of a problem.  Single shot firearms are not used in crimes.  Nor are firearms converted from single shot back to normal semi-automatic operation.  So why write and pass such a law?  This was a must pass bill for anti-gun Democrat legislators who are eager to secure campaign funding.  Money talks in the Golden State, particularly anti-gun  campaign donations.

Gary D- Maybe the hunters that think they don’t need the NRA will join now that they can’t use their Thompson/Center Encore anymore.
Comments?

Paul- We have a lot of news from an epidemic of failed gun free zones.

3 Gary H- Jack in the Box restaurants all across the country continue to be an easy hunting ground for criminals since the company requested that gun owners eat elsewhere.  A Jack in the Box in Honolulu, Hawaii was robbed by a suspect carrying a rifle.  A Houston Texas Jack in the Box was held up by two armed robbers in broad daylight.  Including another holdup in Tennessee, two people were shot in some of the latest Jack in the Box robberies.

Brian Luscomb is Vice President for Jack in the Box.  He said, “Creating a warm and inviting environment for all of our guests and employees is a top priority for Jack in the Box.

The presence of guns inside a restaurant could create an uncomfortable situation for our guests and employees.. and lead to unintended consequences.”

Paul- Mister Luscomb, your gun free zone does not mean what you think it means.

Gary D- Another Bloomberg success story.

Comments?

4 Rob- Speaking of Bloomberg success stories.. Target Department Stores have been targeted by thieves now that concealed carriers are not welcome.  A Target customer was robbed at gunpoint by several thieves in the parking lot at a Georgia Target store.  In another Georgia Target store, a woman was severely beaten and her car stolen from the store parking garage.  On the west coast, a Target security guard approached a man for shoplifting in an Oregon store.  The thief pointed his gun at the security guard and fled.

Target’s interim CEO, John Mulligan, said: “Bringing firearms to Target creates an environment that is at odds with the family-friendly shopping and work experience we strive to create.”

Paul- Being robbed and mugged isn’t exactly the family-friendly experience I want when I shop.

Comments?

BREAK
5 Gary D- Police are searching for two suspects who robbed a Chicago Transit Authority train at gunpoint.  In case you forgot, public transit is another no-carry zone for honest Illinois gun owners.  These latest robberies occurred around 4 in the afternoon on the Orange Line train between the Halsted and Roosevelt stop.  This is the train typically used by tourists who fly into Chicago’s Midway airport.  The robbers boarded the train and announced an armed robbery. They robbed several people of an iPad, two laptops, an iPhone, bank cards and $105 dollars in cash.  The thieves fled when the train arrived at the Roosevelt station. The CTA did not make a statement other than to say it’s a “police matter.”  I call it another gun free zone not working in Chicago

Paul- Maybe you can excuse a corporate executive for not understanding the nature of self-defense, but when the executive is paid that much, he should ask the experts.

6 Paul- Here is a store that should know about self-defense.. and about customer service.  Absolute Outdoors in New Kent, Virginia has a large sign in their front window that says “No loaded guns”.  Ed Levine from the Virginia Citizens Defense League asked the store how the policy was enforced.  The store’s owner had this shockingly rude answer.

“You need to add to your list of titles:
Loser
Idiot
In desperate need of a life
life long member of the tiny dick club
Just plain stupid
Now that better describes you.

I’m usually there everyday so you should drop by and see me little man.”

Most guns stores simply ask you to keep your loaded firearm holstered, but not Absolute Outdoors in New Kent, Virginia.

7 Gary H- We have another advocate for gun-free zones in Missouri.  Missouri Governor Jay Nixon vetoed legislation that allowed specially trained teachers to carry concealed guns on school grounds.  Nixon said armed teachers jeopardize safety.  The Democrat governor waited until the legislative session closed before he issued his veto.  Now the Republican-led Legislature has to wait until the September session to attempt an override.

If trained teachers jeopardize students, do the Missouri Capitol Police jeopardize safety of the Governor and legislators too?

8 Rob- We don’t often think of a county as being a gun free zone, but I live in such a county in California.  San Joaquin County, California has similar restrictions with only a few hundred carry permits.  Those of us who have to live in gun-free California counties are told that the police will be there to protect us.  There is an important difference between protecting yourself and waiting for the police.  Last week that  difference mattered.

Three armed gunmen tried to rob a bank in San Joaquin county.  A deputy spotted the robbery in progress, but he was outside the bank and the citizens inside the bank were unarmed.  The robbers took three hostages.  Two of the hostages were badly injured as the robbers tried to escape, and one of the hostages was killed by gunfire.

The police will be there in minutes, and sometimes seconds are the difference between life and death.

Gary D- The robbery took place in Stockton, and the robbers were using AK pistols.  More failure of gun control.. just like Chicago.

9 Gary D- We reported on this story a few episodes ago, but the story of Shaneen Allen goes on.  Shaneen drove into New Jersey where she was stopped by a policeman for a lane change.  Unfortunately, she was carrying a firearm, and like an honest citizen, she informed the New Jersey officer who stopped her.  She was arrested since there is no reciprocity between New Jersey and Pennsylvania where Shaneen was licensed.  Shaneen is a single mom with two children and two jobs.  She works late and was robbed twice this year.  She took her firearms safety class and had her carry license for only a few weeks.

Think about this for a moment.  This young woman drove a car that is far more powerful than any handgun.  She used a drivers license issued by Pennsylvania and recognized all across the country.. and even recognized in New Jersey.  She is also recognized as a US citizen from a birth certificate issued in another town.

As I said, Allen had a license to carry a concealed weapon issued in Pennsylvania.  That licensing process is far more rigorous than getting her drivers license or her citizenship papers, particularly for a concealed carry license from Philadelphia where Allen lives.  New Jersey ignores that license and branded her a criminal.

I don’t know if you remember speed traps in the south and southwest where small towns would use law enforcement to fine and imprison strangers.  This is the same miscarriage of justice inflicted on an innocent woman.  Allen faces a felony weapons possession charge and faces three year in New Jersey prison.  This single mom was already jailed for 46 days before she could make bail.  She was about to accept a plea deal and serve the three years when she got a good lawyer.  This is bigotry against honest gun owners.

Show me the victim if she is a criminal.

There is a defense fund on Facebook, and I hope you will call the National Rifle Association and Gun Owners of America asking them to help her.  You are a member, aren’t you?

10 Paul- Anti-gun groups in Nevada want to put an initiative on the ballot to legislate universal firearms background checks.  The Las Vegas Review Journal came out against the measure in an editorial.  They said the gun control proponents must “overcome the strongest argument against expanded background checks: the fact that determined lawbreakers who want a gun will not respect the laws written to disarm them.”  The editorial then went on to cite the many examples of criminals either avoiding or passing background checks.

11 Gary H- Detroit has shown that armed citizens save lives.. and might save their city as well.  Detroit has a decreasing tax base and huge municipal debts.  Much of Detroit is abandoned, and the police can’t even patrol the ruins.  Despite those tough conditions, robberies are down 37 percent year to year.  Breakins are down 22 percent and there have been 30 percent fewer carjackings.  It isn’t that the Detroit economy is suddenly so much better.  What changed is that Detroit citizens are harder targets for criminals.

Police Chief James Craig said, “Criminals are getting the message that good Detroiters are armed and will use their weapon.  I don’t want to take away from the good work our investigators are doing, but I think part of the drop in crime, and robberies in particular, is because criminals are thinking twice that citizens could be armed.”

Paul- This week’s quote come from Lysander Spooner.  “A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.”

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this
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Segment 3 Interviews

Interview with Jeff Knox, Director of the Firearms Coalition talking about universal background checks.  Red/Green stripe is an old proposal.  A green “G” is a known good guy.  There are a few obvious questions.  Who pays?  Will any period of review, say 5 years, satisfy the gun grabbers?

Segment 4 DGUs
1 Gary H- It is good to have friends with guns, even if they are strangers.  Donald Sacco was at an Orange County, Florida bus stop.  That is where he was attacked and robbed by Thomas Thorpe.  Thorpe Stabbed Sacco in the hand, leg and abdomen.  A passing motorist saw the attack and stopped his car.  The motorist drew his firearm and held Thorpe at gunpoint while other witnesses helped the wounded Sacco.  Thorpe was taken into custody by deputies and charged with attempted first-degree murder, aggravated battery with a deadly weapon, robbery and carrying a concealed weapon.  The victim was transported to the hospital in stable condition.

2 Rob-  With friends like this, it is time to change occupations.  A homeowner in a North Houston suburb went for his shotgun when three armed men broke into his home.  One of the thieves grabbed the shotgun and the two wrestled for control of the long gun.   That is when the thief accidentally fired his handgun and struck another thief.  The wounded thief was captured by deputies and transported to the hospital.  The two other thieves escaped.

Distance is your friend in a fight.  Keep your firearms close and your enemies far away.

I’m not much of a long-gun guy yet.  Is it true that the only use of your handgun is to fight your way to your long gun?

3 Paul –

This article was e-mailed into Guns Save Lives.

A woman in Gainsville, Texas confronted a man who wandered into her yard.  She thought the intruder was high on drugs because of the way he acted when she repeatedly asked him to leave.  At that point the intruder threw his hat on the ground, and came at her. The homeowner’s 13 year old boy had his Ruger 10/22 in hand, but did not have to fire a shot.  The intruder turned and ran at the sight of the firearm.  The homeowner’s 15 year old daughter called 911, but it took the police an additional 8 minutes to arrive.

This incident is typical of most defensive gun uses.  You only call the police after the threat is apparent.  The sight of a firearm stops most attackers.  The police arrive to take a report after the event is over.

Long guns are better than nothing.

4 Gary D- Two teenagers — a 15-year-old and a 17-year-old — tried to steal Victoria Davison’s car last month while she was in it, “I want the keys, car, everything,” commanded one of the teens.  Davison hesitated, prompting one teen to tell the other, “Go get the cannon” — a reference to his gun. But Davison had a “cannon” of her own and pulled it out of her gym bag. She shot the 15-year-old. “I shot the one that was in front of me. The one in the back of me, he said a curse word, and then he looked at his friend, and then he ran off while his friend was on the ground,” Police are investigating what may be “dozens” of carjackings and robberies tied to the teens. The wounded 15 year-old is also connected to a violent shooting where he shot a 43-year-old man in the face following an attempted carjacking.

I’m sorry everybody but I am a trainer and I tend to see teaching moments. She says in the interview that she had the gun in a bag and struggled to get the zipper open and the gun out. Another reason to if at all possible on-body carry if you can.

Victoria Davison interview

Teens accused in several carjackings seen together at Children’s hospital

5 Gary H-  A guest at the Grand Hyatt Hotel on the river walk in San Antonio, Texas had to use deadly force to defend himself and a woman when a mentally ill man threatened and then charged the pair. Torres went to the sixth floor of the hotel at 1 p.m. and started breaking lights in the hallway, according to police. He started to bang on a door, and when a witness opened it, Torres said he was “looking for someone to kill,” police said.

The witness slammed the door, so Torres banged on another one, police said.

The man inside of that room waited a moment to open the door, and when he did, Torres charged him. The hotel guest drew a concealed handgun, fired one shot, and struck Torres in the chest, stopping him just outside of the door.

No charges have been filed or are currently expected in the case.

Torres’ family says the man was suffering from an unidentified mental illness.

Gary – Teaching moment – If a stranger is pounding on your door, don’t open it.

6 Rob -Two homeless Oregon men thought someone reported them to the Bureau of Land Management as trespassers, so they went to the man’s home armed with a baseball bat and took turns beating him.  The beating caused extensive head, face and back injuries. In an attempt to escape after the attack, the victim grabbed a shotgun from his home and fired two rounds into the air. The suspects fled and called police to report that they had been shot at. They were later arrested and charged with assault.

Gary D- I guess that is the Joe Biden defense.

DGU –
This one was sent in by Greg in Bremmerton,

From the NBCLosAngeles.com site.
A market robber is believed to have accidentally killed his accomplice during a fight with the owner of the El Sereno store they were robbing Friday, the Los Angeles Police Department said.
A 21-year-old man allegedly shot a 35-year-old man at the market at 11:15 a.m., according to police.
“There was an altercation with the store owner, who tried to take the rifle away,” LAPD officer Nuria Vanegas said.
The man who was shot was wielding a machete, police said.
The men’s names were not immediately released.
The store owner was uninjured.

Paul- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Segment 5 Show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Gary H- Email #1 From Ken in Arizona
I thought you’d like to know that Target’s “no guns allowed” policy is actually working! I just bought a new cell phone, and 2 new tablet computers, and a few accessories to go along with them. And not once did I ever consider going into Target to shop. Their policy worked. It kept me and my gun out. Apparently, smarter people than I are making good decisions after all.
Who says a “gun-free zone” doesn’t work.
Ken in AZ

Gary D- We got a message from John Willett of the Bold Departure podcast
Hi, What’s up guys? I was just listening to the episode with Russell Smith’s proposal for firearms purchases. Frankly, moving to combine photo ID and ability to purchase a firearm is a huge step in the wrong direction. I will add that we shouldn’t generate proposals based on the worst state’s laws. I have seen a proposal that makes a lot of sense. Rather than using the failed paradigm of relying on laws that prohibit activity, we utilize technology and an incentive for folks to conduct their own background check prior to a sale via a website that performs the same function as NICS does now. The website gives them a code that is good when combined with info from their existing ID for firearm purchases for a predetermined amount of time. The incentive is that the seller of the firearm would keep documentation of the sale with the code and that would provide them legal immunity against criminal action related to the sale.

Paul- The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Rob- Also please check out Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat training classes. Go to Cornered Cat dot com for more classes and details.

Gary H- Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.
For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the ( mid-week / weekend ) show…
Rob: stay safe,
Gary H: be aware,
Gary D: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 252 – Another MAIG Mayor Goes to Prison

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Saturday, July 12, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop

Gary D: I’m Gary Daugherty, and we’ll talk about self-defense news.

Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone, we also have our normal DGU segment and some emails to talk about.

Gary D: so climb aboard

Gary H: strap in

Paul and hang on! Episode 252 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

 

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

 

Gary D: Yesterday I finished training and qualifying two more students from my most recent  private Illinois concealed carry class.

Gary: Tonight Harley Nights.

Rachel: Participated in a highly successful CATI walk specially for the ladies – the Gunpowder and Lace walk – and then came home and went outside with a few friends to zero a rifle and got to fire off a couple of rounds about 15 minutes before we went live tonight. FNAR. Sweet rifle, sweet glass.

Paul: Starting the process of getting a new family member (dog), major annoyance while trying to do research for todays show, Auto loading videos that will not stop until the advertisement has run. (I will buy Dannon yogurt again sometime after I eat at Buffalo Wild Wings and get a downtown Manhattan apartment)

Matthew: Shot my first Appleseed today.

 

Break

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Seg 2- News

Gary D – Headline – Police Bust Local Man on Felony Gun Charges – I’m sure you’re thinking good they got another bad guy off the street. But, wait. A FFL and a very vocal gun rights activist gets food poisoning so severe that he needs to be intubated in the hospital. Of course anybody who is intubated must be restrained so they don’t hurt themselves pulling the tube out of their throat. According to hospital policy anybody who is restrained has a mandatory meeting with the psychiatrist. Mandatory treatment means bye bye FFL, which I understand he has spent 6 figures in legal fees trying to get back, bye bye Illinois concealed carry instructor certification, bye bye Illinois FOID card. I don’t know what evidence was used, possibly facebook pictures of a personal gun collection, but two search warrants were issued for the man’s business and for his home where three handguns, two rifles, 1800 rounds of ammunition and some reloading gear was confiscated. Over the years he has ruffled a lot of even pro gun feathers in blog posts and on social media. Now he is being vilified for doing nothing wrong until the last minute when he didn’t immediately relinquish all of his guns after his FOID card was revoked, all because of comments made on social media. Be careful what you post.

 

Paul- It looks like there is a fight going on in Miami, and some good advice inadvertently is coming out of the policemen’s union  From the WVSN website

 

MIAMI (WSVN) — Miami-Dade County could end up with hundreds of police officers losing their jobs in a budget proposal made by Miami-Dade Mayor Carlos Gimenez, Tuesday.

“This is it, start of a long-term budget strategy that will help us avoid yearly budget crises,” said Gimenez during his announcement of the 2014-2015 budget proposal.

The budget cuts close to 650 county jobs to fill a $64 million hole in the general fund. Miami-Dade Police could see the largest cuts if certain concessions are not made by the local labor union. “If we get no concessions whatsoever, then you’re looking at about 250 police officers,” said Gimenez.

If police department cuts are made, officers from administrative posts would likely shift to the street and certain specialized units that deal with robberies and child abuse cases could see positions vanish. “One of the directions I told the director was that I wanted to have the same number of patrol officers in the street that we have today,” said Gimenez.

The Miami-Dade Police Benevolent Association fired back after the proposal, saying public safety is paramount and these proposed cuts will have a negative impact. John Rivera, president of the Miami-Dade Police Benevolent Association, said, “If the mayor’s not going to provide security, then my recommendation, as an experienced law enforcement officer for nearly 40 years, is either buy yourself an attack dog, put bars on your windows and doors and get yourself some firearms because you’re going to have to protect yourselves. We won’t be able to.”

Rachael: Jeff Knox reports in WND.com that the USA Today has started running full page ads paid for by Bloomfield press. That is the publishing company owned by Allan Korwin. He provides many of our gun quotes. The full page ads relate what you hear each and every episode here, Defensive gun uses. These are almost never seen in places like the USA today. Korwin plans to keep running these from time to time in the USA Today and expand them out to other papers and media outlets as well. Good on you Allan, keep it up! Please check out the show notes for this episode to find a link where you can help him keep these ads going.

 

Matthew: Miguel Gonzales reports in his Gun Free Zone blog that an interesting study came out last week. The study by Garen J Wintremute was a look to find out just how many attempts were made to “straw purchase” a gun. I am going to direct you to Miguel’s blog if you want all of the details including how the numbers were reached, but the end result of the study comes out that of all attempts to buy a gun in 2011 (the year the study was in effect) one half of one percent of all attempts were illegal or only about 1 in every 200.  It looks to me like the law is working.

 

Paul:Former New Orleans Mayor and member of Bloomberg’s MAIG or as I prefer Mayors Against Good Guys Owning Tactical Stuff (MAGGOTS) – Thanks to Chaz Murray of the Roadgunner podcast who I stole that from-  Ray Nagan was sentenced this week to 10 years for corruption. He was convicted on 20 of 21 counts of bribery, wire fraud, tax evasion and other crimes earlier this year. Former Mayor Nagan was in charge in New Orleans when Katrina hit and is largely responsible for the gun confiscation debacle that happened during the catastrophe. I sincerely hope that Mayor Nagan goes to a real prison and not a club fed.

Gun Quotes

 

Gary : I have a couple of gun quotes for you:

When a person has a gun, sometimes their mind clicks that this thing will win arguments and straighten people out. –Bill Cosby

When you carry a gun, you mean to harm somebody, kill somebody. –Bill Cosby

If this is the prevailing anti-gun mindset, then I understand why they believe that the government should keep our guns out of our hands.  Of all the gun owners I know, have trained and trained with, none of them have this mindset.

 

On a more positive note, we have a quote from of all people Brad Pitt,

 

America is a country founded on guns. It’s in our DNA. It’s very strange but I feel better having a gun. I really do. I don’t feel safe, I don’t feel the house is completely safe, if I don’t have one hidden somewhere. That’s my thinking, right or wrong.

(Brad, Since I know that you have more houses than just in California, and I think that if you were to ask the LA county Sheriff if you could have a CCW he would grant you one in the MAY issue state of CAlifornia I would suggest that is it far safer to carry the gun on your person than to have one hidden away where you may or may not be able to get to it.)

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this

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Segment 3 Interviews

 

Segment 4 DGUs

 

Gary H: DGU #1

 

Jackson  Mississippi Police are looking for a third suspect involved in an early Thursday morning home invasion and shooting.

JPD Public Information Officer, Colendula Green tells us three suspects broke into a home around 2 a.m. on Myrtlewood. Police say the homeowner used his gun and fired several shots.

One person was hit in the head and taken to the hospital with life threatening injuries. A second person was found shot in the chest behind a house across the street several hours later.

Police say that suspect is also suffering from life threatening injuries. The third suspect is still on the loose.  (One suspects some training here. One chest shot and one head shot out of 3 suspects)

Rachael DGU #2

 

WISN out of Milwaukee tells the story of a carjacker that wasn’t so successful. The 15 year old criminal tried to carjack one person earlier this week. When the victim realised that he was being targeted he hit the throttle and started to drive away. The young punk fired at the victim, who drove himself to the hospital after being struck in the jaw by a bullet., Injured but alive and still in possession of his property. The next day the young Obama supporter (not in the story but added by Paul) decided to try, try again. This time he picked a woman who has a CCW and was carrying. He is in Serious but stable condition in the hospital and is facing multiple felony charges.

 

Gary D: DGU #3

 

On the last show Rob and John talked about a DGU that took place in Chicago I wanted to address that a little more — Obviously there was an argument going on and then someone went into the house came back out and started shooting. I hope what is taught in every concealed carry and self-defense gun class is first try to de-escalate the argument even if this means leaving the area. Second, the time to escape was when the guy went into the house not after he comes back out shooting.

 

We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

 

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Segment 5 Show close

 

Listener e-mail discussion

Rachel: Email #1

Rob,

 

I am the John from San Antonio who took the Appleseed training with Rachel and called into  Gun Talk.  I am a pediatric orthopedic surgeon and am trying to advance gun rights in my little corner of Texas.  My area of concern is that Texas state law mandates that hospitals and nursing homes must post the state designated signs to prevent concealed license holders from carrying on the premises.  As we both know, this turns hospitals into victim disarmament zones. Unfortunately, hospital administrators are not willing to allow staff to carry. This is allowed under state law.

I also presented a resolution to our county medical society board to remove gun free zones. They voted it down 22-2. I have been in communication with Timothy Wheeler, MD from Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership to help me with the medical community. Unfortunately, he has run into similar problems in the past. On a better note, I have organized some Introductory pistol courses for medical staff. I got a couple of good instructors to do them for me. You might recognize their names: Bob Mayne and Ben Branam. The first course we got 12 students including the 16 year old daughter of a physician and one of the doctors who voted against the resolution at the county medical society.  We’ve scheduled the next one for September. I’ve also personally taken over 20 new shooters to the range in the past year and am going to take the NRA Basic and Pistol instructor courses next weekend. I’m also hoping Rachel will help me when the next legislative session convenes in 2015.

I hope to meet you at GRPC in Chicago.

 

John

 

Paul: Email #2

 

Thank you so much for your tribute to your little dog. I am so sorry for your huge loss. You especially touched me, as my doggie, Shuggie, 11 pounds of poodle love, is about the same age, with a similar history, and I thought I was going to lose him on July 1st. The previous night, he had collapsed 4 times in a 10 hour stretch. But, he recovered over the next few days and has rebounded this past week. I know the end is near for him, and I, too, dread the rapidly approaching day. Your experience is touching, and your  words were comforting. Thanks.
Ken Silva
Phoenix, AZ

 

Gary D: Email #3

 

Anthony Lucafo sent in a link to us relaying a story that Dick Durban is trying to push more gun control bills in the Senate. I don’t expect much to come of this, but we will keep an eye in it. After all Dick has often proved that he is aptly named.

Gary H: The Polite Society download app is outon Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

 

Paul: Also please check out Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat training classes. Her next class that still has seats available is the weekend of September 13th and 14th in Culpepper Virginia. Don’t forget that the Tactical Couples class is the weekend after that in Centerton Arkansas.. Go to Cornered Cat dot com for more classes and details.

 

Rachel: Rob had a post from his SlowFacts blog.  WE are ordinary gun owners, and we have a super-power.  WE are trusted by our neighbors. The ordinary gun owner has a reputation for being honest, fun to be around, and trustworthy. That reputation is the antidote to the lies told by the anti-rights crowd because our neighbors believe us rather than the media. The question is this. Will we use our super-power for good? Will we take a friend shooting?

 

Gary D: Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

 

Join your local civil rights group like theNew Jersey Second Amendment Society,Arizona Citizens Defense League,Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League,Florida Carry, Georgia Carry,Georgia Gun Owners,Grass Roots North Carolina,Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

 

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

 

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join theCanadian Shooting Sports Association and theCanadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

 

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  Until the ( mid-week / weekend ) show…

Gary H: stay safe,

Gary D:: be aware,

Rachel: and we’ll see you down the road.

 

Mention advertisers, ABN, Concealment Solutions, Crusader Weaponry and NJ2AS. Firearm Safety Institute

 

Episode 250 – Kathy Jackson and Frank Fiamingo

Intro- “An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Saturday July 5th 2014 I’m Paul Lathrop
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk with author and instructor Kathy Jackson as well as Frank Fiamingo of the New Jersey Second Amendment Society.
Gary: I’m Gary Harpster and we have our weekly self-defense news
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have our weekly stories of defensive gun use, so climb aboard
John: strap in
Rob: and hang on!
Paul: Episode 250 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant
Rob- Dry practice with my SIRT pistol and handgun on Independence day.

John – We had family in town from Missouri yesterday and we all enjoyed the various displays of fireworks. They also brought me a T-Shirt from the MO Univ of Sci & Tech where my nephew is think of attending. The shirt said, “My mascot carries a gun” on the front and “Does Yours?” on the back. The school’s mascot is an old miner with a six-gun on his hip. I love it!

Paul – We have brought up our dog Dakota several times on the show. This week she left us. On the day she left us Dakota was 14 ½ years old exactly. Is seems to me that one of the cruel tricks that is played on us by God, or Mother nature, or whomever you believe in is that while humans have a lifespan that lasts 75 years or so our companions have life spans that are about ⅕ of that. I got home this morning and we got a call from the Veterinarian’s office saying that her ashes were back, and we brought her home.

Those that have had a 4 legged family member know the pain that Susan and I are going through. Dakota came to be a part of our family when she was 6 month’s old. She had been abused by her prior owner, and it took a lot of work for her to trust men, but after several months and a ton of love she finally trusted me and eventually she became comfortable around all adult males.
Like any canine family member Dakota took it on herself to be the family’s guardian, confidant, and occasionally troublemaker. She gave so much and all she ever wanted or expected in return was our love and attention. Those 2 things we poured on her. She was always our “Puppy” and “our baby girl” If you ever want to know what unconditional love is just get a pet like our little puppy. It didn’t matter what kind of day you were having, or if something wasn’t going right, or if she wasn’t feeling the best, we were the very focus of her entire existence always.

I posted that we lost Dakota on facebook Tuesday stating something to the effect that if I earned a spot in heaven and our Dakota was not there I would move along and find her because if she wasn’t good enough for heaven than I definitely had no place there. Thank you to everyone who replied offering kind words. There are 2 that I would like to bring up specifically. First Ben Cook said “If my animal friends are not in heaven, I’ll be sure to leave a trail to where I find them so that you can find us all there

Second there were several references to a poem called the rainbow bridge. If you all would indulge me I would like to read this short poem

Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.

When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge.
There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together.
There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.

All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor; those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by.
The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind.

They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. Her bright eyes are intent; Her eager body quivers. Suddenly she begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, her legs carrying her faster and faster.

You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.

Then you cross the Rainbow Bridge together….

Break
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Seg 2- News
News_Partner_white

John 1- Gun-rights advocates won another victory in Chicago.  A judge approved almost a million dollars in legal fees that the city must pay to attorneys who challenged Chicago’s gun store ban.  The original lawsuit was filed in 2010 by an Illinois offshoot of the National Shooting Sports Foundation.  That battle isn’t over.  Richard Pearson, executive director of the Illinois State Rifle Association, anticipates a legal challenge to the city’s new rules regulating gun stores out of 99.5 percent of the city.  He said, “The ordinance is prohibitive.  If you look at the hidden costs of opening a gun store, I don’t know how a person could make a living selling firearms in the city of Chicago.”

Rob 2- There was another victory for the right to choose armed self-defense.  A Florida appellate court ruled that college and university campuses must allow students to store firearms in their cars on campus.  This allows adult students to attend school and remain armed when they work those late night jobs.  Contrary to the public claims of school administrators, negligent discharges remain extremely rare.  This is another small step toward self-protection in Florida.

John 3- A Kansas open carry bill went into effect on Tuesday.  It is now legal to openly carry a gun in a holster, in your hand, or carry a rifle on a sling.  Captain Rance Quinn of the Kansas City Police Department said they will still respond to calls of man with a gun, but the department will change how they handle the encounter.  Quote “…How are you doing today. I see that you are exercising your right to bear firearms. Is there anything I can do for you today?”

Rob Comment- Why yes, officer.  May I buy you a cup of coffee while we talk about your department sponsoring more firearms training for the general public?

Rob 4- The attention seeking anti-gun Virginia State Delegate, Joe Morrissey, once carried an AK-47 onto the Virginia statehouse floor.  Now he faces criminal charges for having sex with the 17-year-old receptionist in his office.  A special grand jury charged the Virginia politician with supervisory indecent liberties with a minor, electronic solicitation of a minor, possession of child pornography, distribution of child pornography and contributing to the delinquency of a minor.

Comment- He was only following Bill Clinton’s example.

John – This is the same Joe Morrissey who as the State’s Atty for Richmond was disbarred for among other things, fist fights in the courtroom. Why is that anti-gun activists are so violent?

John 5- Here is a good example from law enforcement, and from a small police department at that.  Police Chief Michael Combs found out there were no firearms safety courses offered in the county, so  Chief Combs decided to offer his own course.  The department will host a classroom and firing range sessions at the Goodwill Fire Company on July 19th.  Pennsylvania is a shall-issue state and there are no training requirement for ownership or a carry license.  I think the Chief’s decision makes citizens safer!

Rob Comment- Thank you, Chief Combs.

Rob 6- Some gun-grabbing activist groups tell you that real women want to be helpless.  Not me.  I’ll remind you that the number of women who own guns has been rising rapidly.  The percentage of women who own a gun nearly doubled from 2005 to 2011.  Those guns are not gathering dust.  A growing number of women are at the range and taking classes.  Women are on the cutting edge of self-defense.  I offer as example of the students I see and the students of our frequent guest Kathy Jackson.

Rob- There is a list of women’s gun groups on my blog site Everytown for Gun Safety.wordpress.com

John 7- We’re not sure if it was on purpose or an accident.  On the first of July, a poorly written law in Mississippi exempted disabled military veterans from paying some hunting and registration fees.  Unfortunately, the law it required veteran submit to a disability review by the Veterans Administration.  Many veterans will decline that opportunity, thank you.  The bill also required non-veterans to submit to a mental health exam at the will of the Mississippi state police.  It isn’t clear how the bill will be implemented by law enforcement.  Gun owners need a strong state organization that takes a critical look at legislation.  This legislation may have taken Mississippi back to “may issue” status.

Paul 8- This probably wasn’t the answer they were looking for.  The MSNBC network conducted a poll asking, “Do you think people should be allowed to carry guns in public?” 84 thousand people answered.  88% chose “Yes! The Second Amendment guarantees the right to carry in pubic.  Another 4% chose “Only for self-defense.” and 8 percent said carrying a gun is too dangerous.

John Comment- I didn’t know MSNBC had 84 thousand viewers.

John 9- Because of changes in the Georgia gun laws, churches in Georgia now have an opt-in or opt-out policy towards concealed carry while at church.  An Episcopal bishop in Georgia said he will forbid concealed carry in church.  Other congregations have accepted concealed carry. Pastor Tom Rush said, “Quite frankly, we may have some people in our church that are uncomfortable with the idea… You know, I grew up in a day when we left the sanctuary doors open so people could come in at any time and pray. Unfortunately, we don’t live in those days anymore.”

This is part of a larger social trend of our culture splitting into isolated tribes.  Honest gun owners have had to choose which stores to enter based on the store’s no-guns policy.  Now that decision includes churches as well.

Rob- This issue isn’t confined to Georgia.  I live in California.  Last year a nearby church took an anti-self-defense petition to a city council.  The church’s public statements sounded inclusive, but their claims were wildly inaccurate.  I asked to speak with the church committee but they ignored me and never returned my calls.

Rob 10- In California, Assembly bill 1014 remains in committee.  The bill creates a new law aimed directly at California gun owners.  The bill requires police to proactively confiscate firearms and hold them for one year with no due process based solely on an accusation made by an immediate family member, a law enforcement officer or any health professional.

The person filing the complaint only has to believe quote “the gun owner poses a significant risk of personal injury to himself, herself, or another by having under his or her custody and control, owning, purchasing, possessing, or receiving a firearm.”  close quote.  One anti-gun doctor could declare all California gun owners mentally unfit.

John Comment- so will every vindictive divorce lawyer.

Rob Comment- We commented last week on California’s failing grades for mental health treatment.  They aren’t doing any better this week.

Paul Gun Quotes- The American Revolution was a beginning, not a consummation, said by President Woodrow Wilson.

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this
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Seg 3 Interview with Kathy Jackson and Frank Fiamingo

Questions for Frank
Frank, earlier this week Governor Christie vetoed the magazine capacity bill that was on his desk, could you talk a little bit about that?

Are there any other bills related to gun rights that are still on his desk?
Why are gun owners blamed for violence?
Politicians want a soundbite solution.

What else is going on with the NJ2AS?

Questions for Kathy

Thanks for coming on Kathy, It’s been a while since we were able to have you on for a long form interview and I am so happy that we found a hole in your schedule so that you could join us tonight! I would like to discuss a few of the more recent blog posts. The first one that I would really like to cover is one you titled “Strength and Weakness” where you talk about a the recent Miss USA pageant winner and her take on self defense, in reference to a Larry Correa post. Could you talk a little bit about that?

Another post that I really liked was one of your shorter posts from late May entitled “He Didn’t Deserve That” One unfortunate side effect of our society is that everyone seems to be suing for everything. I thought that this post was quite illuminating in that it seems to have spread to some sectors of public opinion. Could you talk a little bit about that post?

Rob- Kathy, in one of your posts you said You’re never disarmed. “Your ultimate resource for self-defense are the things you carry inside yourself.” Would you tell our listeners more about that?

Guns and alcohol?

Normalcy bias- When someone chokes we want permission to help.
Couples Tactical Class

Segment 4 DGUs

Rob 1- Two young men walked into Marlene’s jewelry store in Fresno, California.  The two men looked at the display cases and slowly moved towards the cash register in the back of the store.  That is where one of the thieves pulled out a gun and pointed it at one of the store employees while demanding cash and jewelry.  Seconds later, the store owner pointed his shotgun around the corner from the back room of the store.  The unarmed thief yelled “shoot them” as he dropped and ran towards the door, but the armed thief turned and followed his cowardly compatriot.  Both young thieves were caught on video and are very lucky to be alive.

Paul 2- Thieves tried to steal a vehicle parked in front of a home in Wasilla, Alaska.  When that failed, they tried to force their way inside the home through the kitchen door.  The 65-year-old homeowner called 911 and then fired a single shot.  She missed, but the criminals turned and ran.  They were long gone by the time state troopers arrived.

Citizens are the first responders, either as witnesses or as victims.

John – comment – if the homeowner was a few years older, I might have guessed it was my first cousin Ginny who lives in Wasilla!

John 3- This man is my hero.  A Centralia, Washington man and his girlfriend were sitting in their living room when a homeless 43-year-old stranger entered their home armed with a knife.  The homeowner grabbed his shotgun and ordered the intruder out of the house. They both walked outside, but instead of leaving, the intruder pushed the homeowner down a flight of stairs on the back porch. The intruder then grabbed a machete sitting on the porch and approached the homeowner.  Rather than shooting his attacker, the homeowner hit him with the butt of his shotgun, putting him on the ground and holding him there until the police arrived.  The homeowner preserved the life of a drug addled man.  Sheriff Steve Mansfield said. “This is another example of why citizens need to take all possible precautions and be prepared if something like this occurs.”

Do you have that much restraint after getting pushed down the stairs?

Rob 4- Well your hero has some competition.   My hero is Orlandous Brown who suffers from cerebral palsy and needs a wheelchair.  Orlandous came home Thursday morning in the company of his friend Latisha Vernon and Latisha’s 17-year-old daughter.  That is when he discovered that someone was already inside his Easly, South Carolina home and was robbing the place.  The thief was armed, but so was Orlandous.  Latisha and her daughter fled the home and called 911.  Deputies moved the women a safe distance away, and entered the home a few minutes later.  They found 33 year old Orlandous wounded from a single round and they also found the intruder, 26-year-old Darin Lowe, dead from multiple gunshot wounds.

Orlandous was transported by ambulance to the local hospital where he underwent surgery and is expected to make a full recovery. Police believe Orlandous may have been targeted because he is disabled and the dead intruder thought he was an easy target.

Comment- The thief thought wrong.

Paul 5- There is no way and no reason to pretty this up.  Gun control kills.  Two armed teenagers shot a couple as they walked on the sidewalk of Newark, New Jersey.  The murderers told the couple to kneel.  They shot 17-year-old Cheyanne Bond in the head execution style.  Her boyfriend survived.  The money Bond’s family had set aside for the teenager’s tuition at nursing school will go toward her funeral.  The crime rate in New Jersey has exploded since gun-prohibition was enacted in the late 1960s.  Now, long time politician and anti-gun Newark Mayor Ras Baraka has the murder rate he worked for.

New Jersey murder rate

John- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Paul: The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

John: Also please check out Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat training classes. Her next class that still has seats available is the weekend of July 12th and 13th in Walla Walla Washington. Go to Cornered Cat dot com for more classes and details.

Rob: Also please check out the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

Join your local civil rights group like theNew Jersey Second Amendment Society,Arizona Citizens Defense League,Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League,Florida Carry, Georgia Carry,Georgia Gun Owners,Grass Roots North Carolina,Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.  Remember if your state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join theCanadian Shooting Sports Association and theCanadian National Firearms Association.

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the mid-week show…
Rob: stay safe,
John: be aware,
Paul: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 248 – Ben Branham and John Cardillo

NJ2AS linkPaul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Saturday, June 28, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop
John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk with Ben Branham of Modern Self Defense
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have our weekly stories of defensive gun use
Gary: I am Gary Daugherty we will also talk about some strange technicalities of Illinois concealed carry law: so climb aboard
John: strap in
Rob: and hang on!
Paul: Episode 248 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1
Personal news from each participant
Rob- On Friday I went to a friends house to load the software, and we had a ball shooting my SIRT gun.. in his living room. this is a combination of laser tag with a decent trigger and magazine change. We had a setup where we could shoot at a paper target to the right, and used a full length mirror to shoot the same target off to our left. Its is all done with mirrors.

I shot an IDPA match in Alpine this morning too. Paul, how many hours do you want me to use up talking about all the fun I had? Steel on a live range is noisier than a laser . So is shooting from inside a truck. It is a pain in the rear to try and maneuver to shoot out the back window of a truck.. but fun. Got to move. Got to shoot. Got to shoot targets that move. Used the sights and also shot from retention. 230 grains of fun from my 1911.

Truck at Alpine
Video >>  here  <<  (I’m behind the camera, not in the truck.)

John – No new news for me since the midweek show.

Break- advertisement ABN

Seg 2- News

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John – On Wednesday, the Second Amendment Foundation filed a Federal lawsuitchallenging North Carolina’s restriction of their Concealed Handgun Permits to US citizens. The lawsuit was filed on behalf of Felicity Todd Veasey, an Australian citizen and a permanent legal resident, who has lived in North Carolina for the last ten years. She currently resides in Butner with her husband and stepdaughter who are US citizens. The suit asks the US District Court to declare the law unconstitutional based upon the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment and becauses it violates the 2nd Amendment. This suit is another of the Second Amendment Foundation’s challenges to restrictions on gun rights based upon alienage or citizenship. The NC General Assembly was asked to change the law during their short session but blew it off.

Rob- Comments –  Didn’t the Second Amendment Foundation win similar cases in other states.. in New Mexico for instance?  Now the North Carolina treasury will pay for the legislator’s laziness.

Gary – On Thursday, US District Court Judge Marcia Krieger upheld the Colorado laws that mandated background checks for private sales and that limited magazine capacity to 15 rounds. In her 50 page opinion, she said “”evidence shows that large-capacity magazines are frequently used in gun violence and mass shootings.” She also said that more competent defensive shooters need fewer rounds to hit their target which must explain why cops routinely have large – or standard – capacity magazines. Judge Krieger, in a footnote, also confuses the AR-15 with the M-16. As has become the unfortunate norm among many Federal judges, Krieger used the intermediate scrutiny standard to make her decision.

Rob- Comments –  It sounds like this judge knows nothing about firearms or the criminal use of firearms in a crime.

Matthew- 163 Democratic members of the US House of Representatives have signed an open letter to House Speaker John Boehner demanding a vote on gun control measures. This is about 80% of the total number of Democrats in the House. Given the timing of the letter, it seems this group of legislators think that gun control is a winning topic for Democrats despite a majority of Americans being opposed to more gun control.

Comments – John – I say, yes, please let’s make gun control an issue. We need more pro-gun Congressmen and women and this will help mobilize gun owners to get out and vote.

Comment- rob- These politicians are placing their campaign bets.  They think the bad publicity they get for supporting gun control will be offset by  fawning press coverage and campaign donations from anti-gun groups.

Paul – The National Shooting Sports Foundation just released a report this week that detailed the impact of hunters and target shooters on the economy. The $48 billion spent by hunters and shooters is responsible for 866,000 jobs and a total economic impact of $110 billion. The amount spent is more than the annual retail sales of companies like Coke, FedEx, and Disney. To put it in even greater perspective, the number of jobs – 866,000 – would make it the world’s 7th largest employer. The data used in the report comes from 2011 statistics. Imagine what it is now after the post-Newtown boom in sales of firearms and ammo.

Rob- Comments – Don’t ask me how much I paid for the venison I put in the freezer.

Rob- Ducks Unlimited used to put in duck ponds and graze areas.

John – This next story makes you want to say what the heck? Back in March, a legal concealed carry permit holder saved the life of the manager of Keith’s Superstore in Lumberton, Mississippi by stopping a thief in the act of stabbing the manager.  He did so without firing a shot and held the thief until police and EMS arrived. Fast forward 3 months. It now seems that the owners of Keith’s Superstore have posted “No Guns” signs on the door of the store and were quite rude when asked about it.

John- Comment – I wonder why they haven’t posted “No Knives” signs on the door instead.

Rob – Listen to this and hear your future.  Clark Aposhian could be said to be Utah’s top gun lobbyist.. and he had his guns taken away after a domestic dispute with his ex wife.  Aposhian was charged with disorderly conduct, domestic violence in the presence a child, criminal mischief, and threats of violence.. All this for sounding an air horn in a residential neighborhood. Aposhian was arrested last year after he drove his “deuce and a half” military surplus vehicle to his ex-wife’s house to pick up his daughter.

Quote  “I’ve been cleared of all these untrue and unfounded allegations. I’ve been vindicated. It’s unfortunate it took over a year to have that happen, at a great cost taxpayers and Cottonwood Heights, as well as at a great cost to myself.”

Last June a court ordered that Aposhian could not possess any firearms in light of a protective order filed against him. Aposhian said Monday that the protective order has been dismissed and he can have his guns back.

Matthew – Comment- You and I hear days in court.

John – Comment- Yeah, Lawyers hear the cash register ring. I am still confused on why divorce lawyers practice “family law”.

Rob Comment-  One of my friends used to thrill the little boys in the neighborhood when he drove his grandson to school in the company dumptruck.  That was not harassment and domestic violence.  This sounds like a couple conducting lawfare on each other using their lawyers as blunt instruments.

Paul- We talked about Washington DC’s new domestic violence gun ban a week ago.  Well, we told you so.

Matthew- Law enforcement officers beat their wives or girlfriends at nearly double the rate of the rest of the population, and trying to control that is not only difficult for the victims but potentially deadly, experts say. The trouble lies in the very nature of police work. One of the hallmarks of a good cop is to radiate authority and control, and in the wrong hands, those characteristics can be misused and lead to domestic intimidation and violence.

Gary- I’m sorry but the police are not there to save us.  An arrest was made Wednesday after two bodies were found along a rural road in southeastern Wisconsin earlier this month.  One of the bodies was identified as a woman reported missing late last year.  A West Allis man, 52-year-old Steven Zelich, was taken into custody in the death investigation.  Police identified Zelich as a former West Allis police officer.  The second victim found locked in a trunk alongside the road has not been identified.

Paul- Gun Quote- If you are not prepared to use force to defend civilization,  then be prepared to accept barbarism.  Economist and Marine Corps veteran, Doctor Thomas Sowell

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this advertisement from Concealment Solutions

Seg 3 Interview with former New York policeman, and current self-defense advocate, John Cardillo.  Here is John’s recent article in the Blaze about his views on self-defense after being a New York city cop.  Here are John’s older articles in the Blaze.  Here is a link to his current company, PsyID.

Segment 4 DGUs

Why Paul is not in Illinois getting trained for his CHL.  Illinois has restrictive requirements for reporting out of state crimes, so does not allow out of state residents to apply for a permit to carry.  It could easily expand the requirements to include Mental health reporting, Domestic violence reporting, Debts, Driving infractions, DUI reporting, and Definition of felony versus misdemeanor convictions.

Break-

John -1 Sharon Doyle forgot her firearm when she went to work on Monday. So she went home and retrieved .38 revolver. That decision probably saved her life. A robber came into her health foods store with a knife and announced that this was a robbery. After going behind the counter and forcing the register open, he held a knife to Doyle’s chest. Doyle had previously served as a Philly police officer and a Secret Service agent. She credits her training with saving her life.

“I just went into a mode like this is what has to be done,” Doyle said. “One of us is walking out of the door and it’s gonna be me.” She shot the unidentified robber in the torso and called police. The unidentified robber was taken to the hospital where he was pronounced DOA. Doyle didn’t regret her actions.  She said “It might have saved somebody else because he looked like he was on a mission.  So, if it wouldn’t have been here, it may have been somewhere else.”

Rob- This police officer knew she had to be armed or be lucky, and she decided to be both armed and lucky that she was.

Gary- I get this comment in class often, “I only carry if I’m going some place dangerous”, I try to dissuade this opinion.

Rob – Two men are in the hospital following an attack in Chino Hills, California.  At about 2AM, Raiveon Wooden broke into the home of his ex-girlfriend and her parents.  He hid in the garage.  When the girl’s father went to investigate noises in his garage, Wooden attacked him and stabbed him multiple times.  Fortunately, the father was armed and shot Wooden, ending the attack.  Both men are being treated for non life threatening injuries.  Wooden faces charges of burglary as well as attempted murder.

Paul- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Segment 5 Show close
Listener e-mail discussion

Rob- Thank you to Scott Gibbons for sending in some news and DGUs.

Paul: The Polite Society download app is outon Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Gary: Also please check out Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat training classes. Her next class that still has seats available is the weekend of July 12th and 13th in Walla Walla, Washington. Go to Cornered Cat dot com for more classes and details.

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- That rant I did about crime in San Diego on our Wednesday show, well, it is a blog post and up at Ammoland and a Clash Daily.  It also turns out that in the county just north of me, annual applications for carry permits have already grown 10 fold year to year, and we are only in June.

Rob: John do you want to mention anything off of your blog you would like to talk about?

John:  I did a post today on the world’s most powerful handgun. Today marks the 100th anniversary of the day that Gavrilo Princip assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria. That was the spark that set off WW1. We often refer to pistols with calibers less than 9mm Luger or .38 Special as “mouse guns”. Well, it was a “mouse gun” – a FN Model 1910 in .380 Auto that was used to start WW1.

Rob- I’ve been on that bridge and read the report of how Franz Ferdidinad’s security detail was pulled from the motorcade.

Matthew: Also please check out the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.

Gary- I’m a member.

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the (mid-week / weekend )show…
Rob: stay safe,
Matthew: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Mention advertisers, ABN, Concealment Solutions, Crusader Weaponry and NJ2AS. Firearm Safety Institute

 

Episode 247 – John Pierce and Anthony Collandro

NJ2AS link

Intro- “An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Wednesday, June 25th 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop.
Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone and on tonights show we get to talk with John Pierce of Open Carry and Firearms law.
John: I’m John Richardson, and we also talk with Anthony Colandro about New Jersey issues..
Rob: I’m Rob Morse, we also have our usual news and DGU’s,: so climb aboard
Rachel: strap in
John: and hang on!
Paul: Episode 247 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

John – In keeping with Tom Gresham’s “No Shrug” Policy, I responded to a local hospital’s Facebook post sending people to the Brady Campaign’s Asking Saves Kids website. I noted that the Eddie Eagle program was proven to work and had many endorsements while the Brady Campaign was really about gun control and trying to stigmatize firearms. Later that day they had removed their original post.

Rob- I  had a couple dry practice sessions with my SIRT pistol. It is good for practicing follow-on shots.

Rachel- Wilderness Fun Day with friends learning about wilderness survival – knot tying, fire building, sheltering, and a great line-up of scenarios requiring medical help in backwoods settings. Despite all the skills training segments and emphasis on medical training, I learned most about leadership this time around – some important do’s and don’t’s.

Paul-  Nothing gun related, did add a new show sponsor and screwed up the editing of the last show.

Break
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Seg 2- News

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Rob- 1- Welcome back Anthony Colandro.  Anthony is a Master firearms trainer.  He’s on many NRA committees. He is a podcaster and is also the owner and operator of Gun for Hire at the Woodland Park Range in Woodland Park New Jersey.  Welcome to the Polite Society Podcast.  Anthony, tell us what is happening in New Jersey gun law?

Please call New Jersey Governor Chris Christie and ask him to oppose the magazine capacity bill.  We need calls from every state, not only New Jersey.  Governor Christie has until July 7th to sign or reject the bill that cuts capacity from 15 rounds to 10 rounds.  Call 609-292-6000 and politely ask Governor Christie to reject the bill.

Rob- when I called they did not ask where I was from.  I assumed they saw that I was from out of state.

Anthony, where will our listeners learn more about you? GunforHire.com

Paul 2- It was not a quiet week in the gun control paradise of Chicago where the gangs own the streets.  The gangs usually shoot each other, and they have no trouble shooting innocents as well.  19 people were shot this weekend, and 5 were killed.  The victims were walking on the street or working in neighborhood stores.  886 people were shot in Chicago so far this year.

We have a link showing the shootings for the last 30 days.chicago wounded June

Rob Comment- It is a little hard to show a graph on a podcast.  Here, I’ll hold it up higher.

Paul Comment- yeah, that helps.

john 3- Anti gun billionaire Michael Bloomberg spreads his love around.  Bloomberg invested a quarter million dollars to help the struggling campaign of incumbent Mississippi Senator Thad Cochran.  The unremarkable Senator Cochran won his primary race, so how do you think Thad Cochran will now vote on gun issues?  Mississippi gun owners had 250 thousand reasons to vote for Chris McDaniel, and the missed.

Rob Comment- No money for RINOs.

Paul Comment- No money for anti-rights RINOs or Asses.

Rachel Comment- The revenge of the low information voter.

Rob Comment- Thank you to your listeners who choose to stay informed on self-defense.

Rachel 4- A Joplin, Missouri, church decided the best way to get more people in the pews was to raffle off two Black Rain AR-15 rifles.  The first raffle was held at Ignite Church on Father’s Day to entice more young men to attend services.  The pastor says more raffles could follow.

Quote- “If we get people in the door, we get to preach the gospel. If we can get more people to follow Jesus, I’ll give away 1,000 guns. I don’t care.”

John Comment- well praise the lord and pass the 223.

Rob 5- Vermont Governor Peter Shumlin signed a bill into law that allows law enforcement to seize and store guns from someone subject to a restraining order.   Despite how good it sounds, I expect this tactic to be the latest escalation in disputed divorces.  Note that restraining orders often do not require evidence or a hearing.  Unfortunately domestic violence makes good press.. until we read about a victim being disarmed and beaten.

Paul 6- Everything the government does is political.  David James is suing the US Army Corps of Engineers because they will not give him permission to camp while armed at Georgia’s McKaskey Creek campground.  The Corps won’t even give mister James the reason why.  That left him with no choice but to file the lawsuit.  James is a former police officer and military veteran who has a Georgia Weapons Carry Licnese.  The Corps allows hunting on their property, and courts have ruled that a campground is considered a temporary domicile and due such protections under firearms laws.

Break-

John 6B- This is a surprising article.  It says that strengthening gun control won’t stop the next mass shooter, but changing the treatment for the mentally ill for treatment just might.  The article asks us to look at the last mass murderer in Santa Barbara.  California’s gun control laws received an “A-” grade from both The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence.  The gun control organization got their wishes answered and we had mass murder in California anyway.  The murderer obeyed every California Firearms law.

Comment- Right up until the moment he didn’t.

You’re right.  In contrast, the nonprofit Treatment Advocacy Center looked at both the quality of involuntary mental health treatment and the availability of court orders to force treatment.  California received a failing grade of an “F”

That is from an article on CNN.

Rachel Comment- Let me check the weather report.  There might be snow in hell right now.

Rachel 7- Michigan Governor Rick Snyder signed bills into law that protect the identity of lawful gun owners by keeping state firearms records confidential.  The bills passed with support from both political parties.  Firearms records are now immune from Freedom of Information Act requests, though the records remain available to law enforcement during an investigation.

Rob 8- San Diego County, California is may Issue for concealed carry, so law enforcement grants the right of armed self-defense at their discretion.  San Diego Sheriff Bill Gore said law enforcement will protect you.  That is hard to believe given the thousands of crime victims in the county each month.

In the last few weeks-

-It was afternoon when a woman was helping her elderly mother into her car.  A man in a white SUV drove up next to her and asked for directions.  The stranger then got out of the SUV, pointed a handgun at her, and demanded the woman’s purse.  He then shot her in the back as she ran away.

Comment- That is one

-A San Diego woman was asleep in her Pacific Beach home at 2AM.   She woke to find a stranger touching her.  She screamed and the stranger fled.

Comment- That is two

-A gun-wielding robber approached two women as they were getting into their car in La Jolla.  The robber showed a pistol and ordered the two women into their car.  He then forced them to their local ATM and made them withdraw money.  He then had them return him to where they were originally kidnapped.  There the robber fled on foot.

Comment- That is three

-San Diego Police arrested a man suspected of a triple murder.  Back on Christmas Eve, the victims were shot as they sat in their cars at the Mission Valley Mall.  Police spokesmen said they would release details next week.

Comment- That is four

-A robber rode his motorcycle up to the Oceanside, California branch of Union Bank.  He parked the bike on the sidewalk, walked inside, and then robbed a teller at gunpoint.  Then he drove away on his motorcycle.  Oceanside is in north San Diego County.

There are four to five thousand examples in San Diego each month were the police could not protect the victims.  That is understandable.  The average police response time is 5 minutes but sometimes that stretches out to several hours.  Citizens are on their own in the mean time.

Sheriff Bill Gore says he can’t issue San Diego citizens a license to carry a weapon, though many other California Sheriffs do exactly that.  That sounds unfair to me, and a 3 judge panel of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals agreed.

The Court called Sheriff Gore’s policy unconstitutional!  Now the full court will decide.  Until then, the citizens of San Diego will continue to be helpless victims.  150 disarmed people a day are victims of violent crime in San Diego County.  (Link) This will continue until Sheriff Gore acknowledges their right of self-defense.Early May

Paul- Gun Quotes of the week- “With guns in the hands of many citizens, we will have tragedies.  With guns only in the hands of the government, we will have genocide.”  Multiple sources

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this advertisement from Concealment Solutions.

Seg 3 Interview with John Pierce

I first read about John Pierce at Opencarry.org.  Later John and I met face to face.  Now John is a lawyer with his own practice in Virginia.  Welcome to the polite society podcast, John Pierce.

Councillor, we’ve seen citizens robbed as they left a convenience store where the convenience store had a no guns allowed sign up on their door.  We’ve also seen gun owners robbed as they left a shooting range that doesn’t allow concealed carry.  These stores identified their customers as being disarmed and as prime targets.  They can be robbed for their money, their wallet, or their weapons.  What principles of law apply to these stores and the risk they create for anyone who enters?

A man was shot outside a Jackson, Miss., convenience store where the proprietor had posted a “no firearms allowed” sign.

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2014/01/14/business-with-gun-free-zone-signs-may-be-tagged-with-legal-liability-94257

Two people shot outside gun shop.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Cops-Gunman-shoots-clerk-steals-6-firearms-in-Northeast-gun-shop-robbery.html

To the criminals, the human predators, waiting outside, these gun-free zone signs say the victims have been disarmed and are easy pickings.

John, where can our listeners read about you?  http://monachuslex.com/

Segment 4 DGUs

John A- This DGU is from Memphis, Tennessee.  Drunk Tony Hardin was fighting with his girlfriend and her adult son.  According to the victims, Hardin chased them with a hammer and a wrench and threatened to kill them.  That was when the son shot Hardin and the victims made their escape.  The son was taken into custody, but released.  Hardin was taken to the hospital and charged with aggravated assault.

Rachel 1- Anti-gun groups say this never happens, but it sure happened here.  A gunman burst into a 15 year highschool reunion in East Peoria, Illinois.  The gunman then shot his ex-wife and her new boyfriend.  The assailant was then shot by an off duty FBI agent who happened to be in the same restaurant and witnessed the assault. Unfortunately, all three died.  Thanks to the FBI agent, for making sure no one else was injured.

A gun free zone since it served liquor in Illinois?  According to Illinois legislators, we’d be safer if everyone was disarmed except the criminal.

Paul 2- Two teens were on a car robbing spree when a man heard them break into his car early Tuesday morning.  The car owner stepped outside,and that is when the car thief, Jarvis Brooks, age 18, shot at the car owner.  The owner fired back.  Brooks and his accomplice, Jashayla Finney, 17, fled in another stolen car.  Brooks was picked up at the hospital where he was being treated for a gunshot wound.  Finney was picked up for questioning by police a short time later.  Since they are minors, the police can not say much about the two robbers. but both of their portrait pictures were available for the newspaper article, so perhaps this was not the first time they have come to the attention of the local police.  Both face charges.

Rob 3- Wendell Vanbuskirk of Indianapolis, Indiana got drunk and was fighting with his fiancee at a family cookout for Fathers Day. He agreed to leave the party.   He returned with a baseball bat after midnight and started beating his fiancee’s mother.  His future father in law saw the attack, drew his gun, and shot Vanbuskirk.  Vanbuskirk died.  No arrests have been made and the investigation is ongoing. Police do not suspect the father-in law of any crime because he was acting in defense of his wife and himself.

John 4- It is good to have friends with guns.  A 27 year old convenience store clerk was robbed in Milwaukee, Wisconsin on Wednesday night.  During the robbery, the thieves shot the clerk.  A second employee at the convenience store shot back and wounded one of the robbers.  We don’t know how bad the situation would have become if the second store clerk was not armed.  We do know the shooting stopped when the criminal was wounded.  The wounded robber, age 25, and his 20 year old accomplice are in police custody.

rachel 5- A convenience store clerk in Rutland Vermont has been fired.  58 year old Don Pitaniello was closing up Mac’s Convenience Store Monday night when a man wearing a hoodie and a bandana over his face entered the store and threatened him with a roughly 5-inch blade.

Quote, “I looked up when I heard the doorbell chimes and saw the hoodie, the bandana, and a bag in his hand.  He (the robber) walked up to the counter, laid the knife on it and said ‘Empty the register.’”

The store clerk has carried a handgun all his life and had his .380 in his grasp and behind his back before the intruder made it to the counter.  The robber waved his knife in Pitaniello’s face, and the store clerk responded by pointed his handgun at the robber. Thats when the robber fled.

The store had been robbed at least eight times, and this attempted robbery is the the second time in a week that an assailant armed with a knife has demanded money from convenience store clerks in the Rutland.

The clerk, Don Pitaniello said, “I can always find a new job.”

Rob6- Some people can’t find another job.. not when they own the business.  Kent Wright and his wife live in Red Lake Falls, Minnesota.  They were sleeping the the basement of their convenience store early Father’s day when they heard a noise upstairs.  Kent went upstairs when 16 the year old intruder hit him in the head with a flashlight.  Kent recovered, and rather than shoot the youngster with the pistol he carried, the threw the youngster to the ground and jumped on him.  Quote, “I got on top of him and said don’t you move and I said a few other choice words I shouldn’t repeat.”

Thank you for your restraint, Mister Wright.  You, sir, saved a young man’s life.  The 16 year old male was charged with  1st degree burglary.

Comment- I’m surprised he wasn’t charged with assault, too.

Paul 7-  Speaking of choice words, this reads like a bad detective novel.  A traveling contractor in Jackson, Mississippi was staying the night in a Motel 6.  While crossing the motel parking lot, a stranger asked him for a cigarette.  He said he didn’t have any.  That is when the stranger drew a gun and said, “I bet you don’t have one of these, either.”  The robber lost the bet and the intended victim shot him.  The robber ran, but was soon picked up by police.  The charge against the robber have been filed with the Hinds County Jury.

John8- Two intruders broke through a front door and demanded money from the occupants of this Valdosta, Georgia home.  One of the robbers was armed with a rifle, and the other was armed with a handgun.  Two of the occupants of the home, a mother and son, were both shot as they attempted to flee.  Another occupant, an older man, was in the back of the house, and he grabbed his own handgun when when he heard the noise.  He shot both intruders several times.  The intruders ran but were soon picked up by police.

The robbers claimed they were victims of a separate shooting, but were identified by the homeowners.  That is why YOU want to be the first one to call police.

We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend

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Tips and tricks segment
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Segment 5 Show close

Rob: The Polite Society download app is outon Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Rachel: We’re experimenting with the show all the time.  Please send us an e-mail to tell us what you like or dislike.  You can contact the show by e-mail.   Email Onair@politesocietypodcast.com to hear your email read on the air. If you would like to email any of the hosts directly just email their first name and then add at politics and guns dot com..  Call 605-215-1438 to hear your voice on the air!

John: That’s 605- 215- 1438

John: Also please check out Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat training classes. Her next class that still has seats available is the weekend of July 12th and 13th in Walla Walla, Washington. Go to Cornered Cat dot com for more classes and details.

Paul: Check out the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Bob is giving away his M&P Shield to one lucky member, there are lots of other prizes as well,  and the drawing is coming up the end of June!

Ben will join us this Saturday.

Rachel: Listen to other podcasts on thethe Crusader Podcast Network. We are also pleased to announce that we are members of the Gun Rights Network.

John: Join theNational Rifle Association,Second Amendment Foundation,Gun Owners of America andJews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.  Joining two makes you a hero.  Supporting all four makes you a super hero.

Rob: Join your local civil rights group like theNew Jersey Second Amendment Society,Arizona Citizens Defense League,Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League,Florida Carry, Georgia Carry,Georgia Gun Owners,Grass Roots North Carolina,Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

Paul: There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League and Wyoming Gun Owners.  Remember if your state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

Rachel: For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join theCanadian Shooting Sports Association and theCanadian National Firearms Association.

John: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the weekend show.. take someone shooting,
Rob: stay safe,
Rachel: be aware,
Paul: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 243 – Texas Convention and Andrew Rothman

Rachel: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Wednesday, June 11th, 2014. I’m Rachel Malone
John: I’m John Richardson, and on tonight’s show we’ll talk with trainer Andrew Rothman about some serious health issues affecting indoor shooters.
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have our weekly stories of news and defensive gun use,
Rachel- We have my speech at the Texas State Republican Convention, so climb aboard
Rob- strap in
John: and hang on! Episode 243 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1
Personal news from each participant
Rachel Malone- Back from saving Texas at the state Republican Convention. Been all across the state and glad to be home!

I’m the founder and director of Texas Firearms Freedom, an organization that equips Texans to stand up for gun rights. Through that, I come alongside gun groups and liberty lovers all across Texas to help them understand the process of effecting political change.

I got into guns and shooting when I became convinced that I needed a CHL. Subsequently, I received rifle marksmanship instruction through Project Appleseed and tactical firearms training through Battle Road USA. Now I get to pass along what I’ve learned to other students; I’m a CHL instructor, an Appleseed shoot boss, and on staff at Battle Road USA.

I’m a lifelong Texan. I was trained as a classical musician and currently work in central Texas as a freelance musician.

RM at RPT

John – Hi, I’m John Richardson and I blog at No Lawyers – Only Guns and Money. Besides shooting and pinking, I collect old military rifles esp. Swedish Mausers and Swiss K-31 Schmidt-Rubins.

Rob- Sunday I was on Armed American Radio.  Mark Walters is the host and George Hill was on with him.  We talked about my blog post discussing the bad tactics of Open Carry Texas.  They gave me two segments.  One of our listeners wrote in about OCT, so we will talk about it more in our e-mail segment.

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Seg 2- News

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Rob- Families worried about mentally unstable loved ones hurting themselves or others would be able to seek a court order to take firearms away under a bill introduced Thursday in the New Jersey Senate. “Families or a close friend are those who know best if someone has reached that point where they are mentally ill and violently prone,” said the bill’s sponsor Democrat Senator Richard Codey of Essex. “You can look at our ongoing history over the last 10 years – Aurora, Columbine, more recently in California,” Codey said. “Clearly, these people were severely mentally ill, needed help, and should not have had guns in their possession.”  That is what they say, anyway.

New Jersey civil rights advocates said the wording of the bill is not public yet, but they hoped any legislation would allow for due process and respect constitutional rights of trial by jury and the presumption of innocence.

Rob- This is the call about your neighbor so the cops take his guns away, bill.  I’d use it if I were a criminal who wanted to disarm my intended victim.. say a shopkeeper who wouldn’t pay protection money.  What will the ACLU say?

Do you have any thoughts?

Rachel- (comment) Who should have authority to decide who gets to keep and bear arms?

John- Michigan gets it.. or this is simply election year pandering.  Michigan’s Republican-led Senate approved legislation to eliminate county gun boards, have county clerks issue concealed pistol permits and require state police to perform accompanying background checks. Sponsoring Sen. Mike Green, R-Mayville, says his proposal would make Michigan a true “shall issue” state for concealed carry licenses by cutting red tape – and costs – on a process that often takes longer than the 60 day limit allowed in current law.  Michigan is the only state left with county gun boards.

The bill would require county clerks to respond to any application within 45 days after fingerprints are taken. It would also lower the CPL application fee from $105 to $90…

Rob- Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid called on the Senate Monday to pass background checks on guns in the wake of a Sunday shooting in Las Vegas that killed two police officers.   Reid said the American people are depending on the Senate to pass background checks to keep guns out of the hands of people like those murderers.

Rob- I’d like to remind the senior silly senator from Nevada that the last half dozen mass murderers passed background checks.  That is why I don’t think this debate is really about background checks at all.  It is about gun control.  Senator Reid is saying we had a murder so we need gun control.  The murderer used a car, a knife and a gun.. so we need gun control.  The sun came up and went down .. so we need gun control.  Reid wants more money from his gun-control political contributors.. so we need gun control legislation.  This is a money bill.. again.

John – On Monday, President Obama participated in a forum on the blogging site Tumblr. During the event, Obama praised Australia for how they dealt with “gun violence”. In case you don’t know the Australian “solution”, it involved the forcible removal of ALL semi-automatic firearms from civilian hands. This included the .22 rifles such as Ruger 10/22s that farmers used to control pests in the Outback. Obama also seems to have no idea of how the  NICS check system works as he gives the impression by his comments that anyone can walk into their local gun store, buy a semi-auto rifle, and walk out – without a background check. He says he respects gun rights but his comments endorsing the forcible removal of semi-auto firearms gives lie to that.

Comments -?

Rob- There is a pro-concealed carry petition started by Tom Gresham.  If you don’t know Tom, he is the man behind Gun Talk Radio and Gun Talk TV.  The petition asks Target Stores to continue to allow concealed carry in their stores.  We will lose our privileges if gun owners sit silently.  Sign here to make your voice heard.

Rachel, take us to break

Rachel- The largest political convention in the world, the Republican Party of Texas State Convention, was held in Fort Worth last week. While the media spent the bulk of its reporting on the major immigration fight as well as the substantial and emotional debate on medical marijuana’s inclusion in the platform, gun rights lobbyists have a major victory to celebrate. The RPT Platform has already included strong recommendations for excellent gun legislation, including Constitutional Carry. Now they have included a resolution to make that the RPT’s one and only priority for the next legislative session.

(Audio from the convention.- speech to Platform Committee on Prioritization of Gun Legislation)

Being a delegate at the convention consisted of a few brief moments where I got to present a rousing speech, a lot of sitting through meetings holding committee members accountable by reporting their votes, and hours on end of standing in line writing speeches and then never getting to deliver them because someone used procedural maneuvering to cut things off. It takes a lot of patience and grit to make it through a convention, and it takes a huge amount of strategic planning to actually accomplish something through the process. I applaud the wonderful gun rights activists who stuck it out and helped us win this victory.

Rob- Miss USA Nia Sanchez told the truth and the feminists spokeswomen lost their minds.  The former Miss Nevada was asked what colleges should do to stop sexual assault on campus.  Nia Sanchez advocated taking personal responsibility for your own safety.  She said, “Myself as a fourth degree black belt, I learned from a young age that you need to be confident and be able to defend yourself and I think that’s something we should start to implement for a lot of women.”   I agree, but that doesn’t follow the trendy script that everyone is a victim.  Good for you, Nia.

In contrast, Elisa Benson of Cosmopolitan magazine had to comment: “I get that the college sexual assault problem can’t be solved in 30 secs but (its) still icky to pretend like self defense is the answer.”  Perhaps the senior editor at Cosmo thinks a new diet and hair style would help.

Comments-

Rachel- Icky?! You mean, you would rather pretend life is all a bowl of cherries and it makes you uncomfortable to think about anything else?

Gary- Speaking to reporters, Milwaukee Police Chief Edward Flynn was unabashedly angry. “Why can’t the people of this neighborhood enjoy a beautiful spring day without worrying about their children getting shot?” he asked.  Under current law, individuals convicted of illegally carrying a handgun in public can later obtain a state license to carry a concealed weapon. The city of Milwaukee is lobbying for a three-pronged approach: exclude offenders with three or more misdemeanor convictions within a five-year period from getting a concealed carry license; make illegal gun possession a felony; and set a mandatory three-year minimum sentence for felonious firearm possession. Currently, felons busted with guns face potentially harsh penalties but no mandatory minimum…

Comments- pro and con

Rob- About a week ago, Jack in the Box restaurants asked patrons to leave their guns outside.  It isn’t surprising that the fast food chain was robbed again..and again.. and again.  The latest was an early morning robbery in Houston.  It follows three other robberies, including a robbery in Tennessee where people were shot by the thugs.

Comment- So now I’ve gotta ask, how is that gun-free zone working for you?

Rob- Some people think a good guy with a gun is exactly what they need.  That is why some Toppenish [ TOP PEN ISH ] School District administrators in Washington State will carry concealed on campus this fall.  School employees may carry firearms on school property to provide an additional layer of security at the school. So far, 11 administrators, including School Superintendent John Cerna, have volunteered to take extra training and to respond to a school shooting with their own weapons.

“I don’t mind giving my life if I have a fighting chance,” Cerna said about his decision.

Comments?

Quote of the week
John- “We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men” George Orwell.

Rachel- “I believe that any man who takes the liberty of another into his keeping is bound to become a tyrant, and that any man who yields up his liberty, in however slight the measure, is bound to become a slave.” H.L. Mencken “Why Liberty?”, in the Chicago Tribune (30 January 1927)

John- Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this
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Seg 3 Interview with Andrew Rothman about lead levels

Segment 4 DGUs
Rob- Thank you to listener Layla who lives in Alabama and sent in this defensive gun use that took place in Huntsville.

Rob- Kevin Weil went to the skate park with his two sons Last Sunday afternoon.  The concrete skate board park was being used by a photographer to photograph lewd pictures of two barely dressed young women lying on the bottom of the concrete ramps.  Weil asked if that was appropriate for a kids playground.  The photographer argued and then went to his car.  He came back with a large handgun and yelled he would kill everyone there.  The women and children ran, but Weil walked toward the photographer asking him to drop his firearm.  When they reached the parking lot, Weil secured his own handgun and fired when the photographer pointed his gun at him again.  The photographer was taken to the hospital and later charged by police.

comments-

John – A legally carried handgun doesn’t have to be fired to be effective. Sometimes its mere presence is all that is needed. Two men got into knock-down, drag-out fight in the parking lot of a Largo, Florida PetSmart. This was the scene that Robert Avery stumbled upon on Monday. The younger fighter had the older one under a bench and was kicking him. Avery was worried for the safety of the man on the ground and thought it might be a robbery. He drew his handgun and told them to break it up. He then called police and reported it. Avery told police he had reholstered his handgun the moment that the fight was over. In the end, neither fighter was charged as they had contradictory stories and police could not decide who started the fight.

comments –

Rob- A 17-year-old girl was outside retrieving something from her car late at night when she was confronted by two armed and masked men.  They held a gun to her head and ordered her to return to her home in the Saint Louis suburb.  The girl’s father saw the masked suspects walking his daughter toward his door.  He retrieved his gun and shot both suspects.  The girl’s mother also  grabbed her gun and fired once but did not hit the suspects. No one in the home was injured.

31 year old Terrell Johnson died at the scene.  Johnson had served time in Missouri prison for first degree robbery. The second suspect ran to his getaway car and contacted his brother to take him to the hospital. The suspect, 33 year Cortez McClinton of Saint Louis, is in critical condition with gunshot wounds to his chest and both thighs.  McClinton faced prior first degree murder charges but the charges were dropped because witnesses would not cooperate with police.  Officers said this time he will face charges when he is released from the hospital.

Comments-

Rachel- Anti-gun spokesmen say that a good guy with a gun has never stops a bad guy with a gun.  We know they lie, and we have evidence as recent as this weekend to prove it.  Two murderers killed two Las Vegas police officers as the officers sat in a chain pizza restaurant.  The murderers then tried to enter a nearby Wal-Mart store.  Before they were able to enter, a citizen named Joseph Wilcox confronted them.  Wilcox was legally carrying his concealed handgun.  Wilcox was unaware that the second murderer was behind him, and Wilcox was shot from behind at close range.  Quoting police “This guy (Wilcox) was not some idiot with a gun. To me, he was a hero. He was trying to stop an active shooter.”

After that confrontation, the two murderers killed themselves.

Comments-  Share this “it never happens” event with your friends.

My sympathy to both the officers and Mr. Wilcox.

David Codrea reports a fund is being set up to help with Mr. Wilcox’s funeral expenses.

Rachel- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Tips and tricks segment with competitor and trainer Taleia Mueller

Segment 5 Show close

Listener e-mail discussion

Rob- From Chris Gillespie

http://buzzpo.com/people-magazine-shannon-watts-one-15-women/.  Can I throw up now? Thanks people magazine. This woman is crazy not someone who is changing the world.

Chris links to an article in People Magazine that says that spokeswoman Shannon Watts is one of 15 woman changing the world right now.

Thanks, Chris.

John- This is from Jason in Minnesota writing in about our Open Carry Texas comments.

I listen to a lot of pro gun podcasts and when this story came out I was reserved about it. I thought it didn’t make sense. Everyone in pro gun media was vilifying open carry texas but no one was trying to get more facts. One of the founders of open carry texas called into Guntalk and even though tom wasn’t listening to him I finally got the facts that made sense. When ever they were going to do an open carry event they would get permission from the management and the customers before entering the store. They would hand out flyers and have a positive event. Between what he said on gun talk and the things your very own host from Texas has said about the open carry groups I believe the pro gun media needs to give open carry texas an apology. Everyone says bad things about the NRA yet we stand behind them. Where did this story come from? Mom’s Demand pulled the picture off of open carry texas’s Facebook page and made up a story. And it worked. Everyone in the pro gun community is talking bad about our own. A part of our family. Would you do that to your son who made a mistake? No. You would point out his error and help him in the right direction with support. We don’t like low information voters and that’s exactly what we have become on this story. I suggest you have CJ from open carry texas on your show to tell his side of the story and to talk about all the positive things they have done. I’ve been waiting for Rachael to talk about this story as she has first hand knowledge about it and haven’t heard anything. Rant over. Thanks for the show and I look forward to hear your response.

Jason

Comments-

Rob- Jason, thank you for your comments, and thank you for being a member of Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance.  We are ambassadors for armed self-defense all the time.  We might not have intended it, but we are also ambassadors when we leave embarrassing pictures on our facebook photo archive and the media uses them to make us look stupid.

Jason, speaking personally, it would be easier to give OCT the benefit of the doubt if they were less defensive and I thought they were listening to suggestions.  All I’ve heard is argument and excuses when I make suggestions.  Someone called CJ told me that what they are doing is perfectly legal and he said he didn’t see me on the street protesting Texas gun laws.

I noticed he never said what they were doing was effective.  That tells me they know they made a mistake and are being defensive.

Rob- Open Carry Texas has already received a lot of constructive criticism.  For a start, please use what works.  Dress like a salesman when you sell your ideas.  Get your best looking and most articulate members to present your ideas from a booth everywhere people gather.  Carry empty holsters and hand out literature.  Try this first in legislative districts where the state representative favors open carry, and get the co-operative legislator to tell you how the calls and letters are doing!  That is called test marketing, and it is what sensible people do.  Test marketing would have told OCT that ARs hung on a chest rig were not effective in persuading the general public to pass open carry of handguns.

Rob- Wearing rifles in public without test marketing is called amusing yourself in public.  It is not a success if it generates bad publicity across the entire US.  Jason, the public relations professionals call that a clue.

Rob- Maybe governor Rick Perry is the problem with passing open carry legislation, so the calls and letters have to be directed at him.  The Texas NRA representative knows, but she isn’t saying in public.  Thank you, Jason, because we’d rather be criticized by our friends.

Rachel comments about OCT.
increased activism
increased number of delegates at the state political conventions
NRA did not support open carry?

Rob- I heard the NRA lobbyists discuss open carry a month ago.

Rachel- Also from our friends, this e-mail is from Bob in Minnesota.

Hi,
You are known as the polite society, however your microphone etiquette is anything but polite. The on air personalities seem to be eating, and smacking their lips, someone occasionally smokes because you can hear them inhaling the first drag then exhaling very loudly. One time it sounded like someone actually started their car, another one of the on air people even commented on that.

I am sure there are others that like me really enjoy your very informative podcasts and the on air personalities that also make them very enjoyable, but are very distracted and annoyed at the additional unnecessary noise. You can get a cough button that temporarily disables the mike if you need to cough, sneeze, eat, smoke, belch or fart, so your listeners don’t have to listen to it. All the TV and radio stations use them.
Please take this as constructive criticism, your shows are very good.
Thanks,
Bob in Eden Prairie, Minnesota

Comments?
Rob- Thank you, Bob.

John: The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Rachel: We’re experimenting with the show all the time.  Please send us an e-mail to tell us what you like or dislike.  You can contact the show by e-mail.   Email Onair@politesocietypodcast.com to hear your email read on the air. If you would like to email any of the hosts directly just email their first name and then add at politics and guns dot com..  Call 605-215-1438 to hear your voice on the air!

John: That’s 605- 215- 1438

John: Also please check out Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat training classes. Her next class that still has seats available is the weekend of July 12th and 13th in Walla Walla Washington. Go to Cornered Cat dot com for more classes and details.

John: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

I’ll put the link to my article Judging Open Carry Texas in our show notes.

Rob: John do you want to mention anything off of your blog?

John: I posted about Shannon Watts claim she is unpaid for her advocacy.  I know she is already well to do, but I wonder how she is compensated even if she doesn’t collect a salary.  Perhaps she is paid by a consulting firm.

Rachel: Also please check out the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Bob is giving away his M&P Shield to one lucky member, there are lots of other prizes as well,  and the drawing is coming up the end of June!

John: Listen to other podcasts on thethe Crusader Podcast Network. We are also pleased to announce that we are members of the Gun Rights Network.

Rob: Join the National Rifle Association, Second Amendment Foundation, Gun Owners of America and Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.  Joining two makes you a hero.  Supporting all four makes you a super hero.

Rachel: Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

John: There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League and Wyoming Gun Owners.  Remember if your state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

Rob: For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.

Rachel- Until we find the billionaires for liberty, you and I have to fund Doctor John Lott’s sociological research about firearms.  I did, and now you do it too.  His effort is called the Crime Prevention Research Center on Indigogo.  Here is the Facebook page.

John: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the mid-week show…
Rob: stay safe,
Rachel: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.

Episode 240 – Vinnie Brown

Intro- “An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Saturday, May 31st, 2014. I’m Paul Lathrop
John: I’m John Richardson, and on today’s episode we have a discussion about veterans issues and the state of the nation’s defense.
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and we have our weekly stories of self-defense news and defensive gun use, so climb aboard.
John: strap in.
Paul and hang on! Episode 240 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1
Personal news from each participant
Paul- Rachel is busy saving Texas at the largest political convention in the world, the republican party convention in Fort Worth, Texas.

Rob- I went out to the desert to shoot my Mosin Nagant. The mojo sights work, but they swim in the desert heat. I really need a limbsaver butt pad. I have a rubber pad, but I come home looking like my shoulder went to a bar fight and got stepped on. I hit a rock behind the cardboard target and turned it to gravel. I have to bed the barrel to get minute of accuracy, but I’m at minute of pig already.

I had fun asking a dozen firearms instructors about guns and alcohol. Their answers will make it into the midweeks show’s tips and tricks segment.

I signed up to coach at an NRA Women on Target event.

John – About the only thing I did gun related since Wednesday was look at the empty spot where .22 LR ammo used to be at WalMart. I spoke to the clerk who said they hadn’t had any in for the last 3 weeks. However, we have a new Dicks opening up on Friday and I plan to hit it when it opens even though they waffled on the 2A after Newtown.

Gary- playing catch up in the store. Lots of local orders.

Paul- Training a student driver in the truck. Got home at 5AM.

Break

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Seg 2- News

News_Partner_white

Rob- There are rules for the rich and famous, and there are separate rules for the rest of the students at Brown University.  Actress Emma Watson graduated from Brown this week.  Sitting next to her was a personal bodyguard wearing a cap and gown.. and open carrying a pistol.  So far, so good, except this is a gun-free zone.  Providence Rhode Island police and Brown university confirmed that the bodyguard was not working for them.  This means you get to break the law if you are one of the rich and famous.  This means campus security will call out the SWAT team and arrest you if you are a young woman working late nights delivering pizza while carrying a sidearm for personal protection.. unless you can afford your own private security detail.  I have no problem with the bodyguard carrying firearms.  I have a problem with Brown denying self-protection to everyone else.  When asked, spokesmen for Brown University and Watson’s publicist refused to comment.

Comments-  Is this what it boils down to?  We’re too important to arrest, and we can cause you more trouble than you can cause for us.

Paul- Governor Eddie Calvo signed “shall issue” into law for the US territory of Guam.  The bill covers all weapons including firearms, grants a permit for three years, and requires a written excuse for denial.  Guam was covered by the 9th circuit courts Peruta decision.  The territory of Guam joins the 40 states who are already shall issue.  Too bad for the ten who are slow to learn.  Six states allow bureaucrats to arbitrarily deny concealed carry. They are Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey and New York.

Comments- Rob, I’m coming to respect the legislators in Guam a lot more than I do the legislators in California where I live.

John- The power to regulate is the power to destroy.  That is why banks have to listen when the Department of Justice under Operation “choke point” advised banks to refuse accounts to certain business.. businesses such as firearms and ammunition dealers. Also targeted were porn stars, payday lenders, and online lending. The DOJ took a FDIC memo about “high risk activity” and started issuing subpoenas improperly under the a section of the Financial Institutions Reform, Recovery, and Enforcement Act of 1989 according to a report issued Thursday by the House Oversight Committee.

That is what happened to Mark Cohen, the owner of Powderhorn Outfitters located in Hyannis, Massachusetts.  The company had done business with TD Bank for years, but were denied a line of credit even though their finances were good and their credit history was spotless.  The bank said they could not approve credit because Powderhorn Outfitters sells guns.

Comment- Rob- so the federal government is for sale and each party in power gets to abuse everyone else.  Well that stinks and we should take away Barack’s phone and his pen.

John- The US House of Representatives took steps in that direction on Thursday when they passed an amendment to stop all federal funding used for the Department of Justice’s Operation Choke Point.

The amendment was brought to the floor by Rep. Blane Luetkemeyer, a Republican from Missouri, who is a member of the House Financial Services Committee and is vice chairman of the House Small Business Committee. The amendment was sponsored by three democrats and two more republicans. The voice vote came as part of the debate on the annual spending bill for the Justice Department and needs Senate approval to become law.

Rob- Two House Democrats introduced legislation Friday to deny firearms to more people.  Representatives Mike Thompson (D-Calif.) and Ed Perlmutter (D-Colo.) want to prohibit

gun purchases and firearms ownership to those convicted of misdemeanor stalking, as well as those receiving involuntary mental health services on an outpatient basis.  Both categories would go into a newly formed FBI database.

*** Comments-  Good that a conviction is required rather than merely the accusation of stalking.  The accusation of stalking is often used as lawfare during divorce.

Bad that the legislation will scare people away from seeking treatment for mental health conditions.  Note that you need not be found to be a harm to yourself or others, and the category could be misused to include someone who was hospitalized for an unfavorable drug interaction.

Rob- That is exactly what has happened to some California gun owners.

I did not see an appeals process once you are on the data base, nor if the ban was temporary or applied for a lifetime.

Paul- So the government that can’t find 10 million illegal aliens says it will find 100 million firearms.  Did I tell you that the Santa Barbara Sheriff’s office forgot to look for the Santa Barbara murderer’s name on the list of firearms owners?  Yhep, that’s true even though law enforcement was called by the killer’s parents and his mental health counselors who were worried he was suicidal.

Comment- Rob- According to California legislators, the cure to fix big unresponsive government is more laws and  more government.

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John- The Louisiana legislature passed, and Governor Bobby Jindal signed into law a bill allowing suppressors to be used to take both game and nongame animals.  This allows farmers and ranchers to hunt nongame animals with suppressed firearms.  Think of a rancher shooting a predator like a coyote at dusk when he doesn’t want to frighten his herd.  He also doesn’t want to scare off the second predator.  Montana is the only state that forbids using suppressors to take nongame animals.

Rob- I always wondered why pig and coyote hunters didn’t use suppressed firearms.  I’m sure the farmers and their neighbors appreciate it.

Paul- Life is hard.. but it is harder when you’re stupid.  The chain of Sonic drive-through restaurants proudly announced that it is a gun-free company as of last Friday.  They asked their customers not to carry, and the corporate management forbids their employees from carrying on premises.  Within hours, one of their employees was robbed delivering food to a customer in Topeka, Kansas.

Comment- John- Maybe gun free zones are dangerous.

Rob- Doctor John Lott asked the question, “How can we prevent mass murderers?”  We have part of the answer from the Santa Barbara murderer himself.  This crazy man spent over 18 months meticulously planning his attack.  His 141-page “manifesto”  (link to searchable PDF) makes it clear he feared someone with a gun could stop him before he was able to kill as many as he wanted.  Here is one section where he considers when and where to attack.

Quote “Another option was Deltopia, a day in which many young people pour in from all over the state to have a spring break party on Del Playa Street.  I figured this would be the perfect day to attack Isla Vista, but after watching Youtube videos of previous Deltopia parties, I saw that there were way too many cops walking around on such an event.  It would be impossible to kill enough of my enemies before being dispatched by those damnable cops.”

He told us that mass murderers fear honest men with guns.  That is why the murderer attacked disarmed citizens in a “gun-free” zone next to campus.

Comment-  John-  Yhep, gun-free zones ARE dangerous.

John- The Santa Barbara murderer thought women were supposed to act like pornstars and sleep with him.  His “manifesto” documents how much he hated the women who wouldn’t.  Wanting to shame both men and firearms in one lie, the anti-gun group Moms Demand Action made up data and said that US women make up the vast majority of those women killed with firearms.  Doctor Lott dug up the real data and called the Bloomberg group a bunch of liars.Lott chart woman percent

Comment- Rob- Please support Doctor Lott’s Crime Prevention Research Center with a monthly donation.  I did.

Paul- Here is our daily gun quote, and this one is by Ann Coulter.  She said, “The most crazed religious fanatic argues in more calm and reasoned tones than liberals responding to statistics on concealed-carry permits.”

Hang on everybody, we’ll be right back after this
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Seg 3 Interview with veteran Vinnie Brown
Segment 4 DGUs

Paul and Gary discuss Vinnie.
Rob- This DGU was e-mailed in by listener Scott Gibbons. I’ve met Scott, so thank you.

A 28 year old marine veteran sat down to lunch in north Harris county, Texas when he noticed two men dressed in hoodies with bandanas over their faces running from a GameStop video center.  They were stuffing cash, video games and X-boxes into their car trunk.  The marine walked out to his truck when one of the robbers pointed a gun at him.  The marine has his Texas Concealed Handgun License and was carrying.  He shot the robber and the robber fled to his getaway car.  The second criminal simply turned and headed the other way.  Bystanders reported the criminal stripping off his hoodie and bandana as he ran.  The first robber died at the scene while the second was picked up by police in a nearby shopping center.

Police investigators released the veteran after questioning.  He was not hurt but was still shaken up by the experience.  Bystanders said, “This is our neighborhood and I just want to say thank you. My kids go in that Gamestop.”

Comment-

John- Three men knocked on an apartment door early Thursday morning.  The resident answered her door in the Laurel Ridge Apartments of East Point, Georgia.  The men claimed they were with the East Point Police Department, and they tried to force their way into the apartment when the women cracked the door to look.  One of the intruders had a gun, but the resident was ready with her own handgun.  She fired three times and struck one of the teens in the head and buttocks.  Police captured the injured teen, but his accomplices escaped.

Neighbors were glad their neighbor was armed.

Comment-  The neighbors were tired of the crime.

Paul- This DGU couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.  On the west side of Detroit, two criminals were robbing and beating their victim late Monday night.  One of the criminals was busy pistol whipping the the victim when the gun went off and struck the other criminal in the neck.  The Detroit News doesn’t report if the wounded criminal died at the scene or was transported to the hospital.

Comment- Rob- They pass a handful of new laws if a nut shoots white kids in California.  Then the media and legislators yawn about brown people getting shot in Detroit and Chicago.

John- Call them murders, not shootings.

Paul- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Tips and tricks segment with Kathy Jackson
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Segment 5 Show close
Listener e-mail discussion

Paul: The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Gary: We’re experimenting with the show all the time.  Please send us an e-mail to tell us what you like or dislike.  You can contact the show by e-mail.   Email Onair@politesocietypodcast.com to hear your email read on the air. If you would like to email any of the hosts directly just email their first name and then add at politics and guns dot com..  Call 605-215-1438 to hear your voice on the air!

John : That’s 605- 215- 1438

John: Also please check out Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat training classes. Her next class that still has seats available is the weekend of July 12th and 13th in Walla Walla Washington. Go to Cornered Cat dot com for more classes and details.

Rob: John do you want to mention anything off of your blog you would like to talk about?

John – Despite the obvious relevance of my post about gun shot wounds infected with “squirrel parts”, I think I’ll just mention a post from this morning. Friday, the White House Press Secretary Jay Carney resigned and was replaced by Josh Earnest. While he does not appear to be anywhere near as smarmy as Jay Carney – and it would be a hard thing to do – of more concern to us in the gun culture is one of Earnest’s former jobs. He was a communications advisor to Mayor Bloomberg back when Bloomberg first ran for office. Earnest bears watching.

Paul: Also please check out the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Bob is giving away his M&P Shield to one lucky member, there are lots of other prizes as well,  and the drawing is coming up the end of June!

Gary: Listen to other podcasts on thethe Crusader Podcast Network. We are also pleased to announce that we are members of the Gun Rights Network.

John: Join the National Rifle Association, Second Amendment Foundation, Gun Owners of America and Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.  Joining two makes you a hero.  Supporting all four makes you a super hero.

Rob: Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

Paul: There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey,New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League and Wyoming Gun Owners.  Remember if your state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

Gary: For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.

John: Until we find the billionaires for liberty, you and I have to fund Doctor John Lott’s sociological research about firearms.  I did, and now you do it too.  His effort is called the Crime Prevention Research Center on Indigogo.  Here is the Facebook page.

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. Until the (mid-week / weekend )show…
Rob: stay safe,
Gary: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.

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