Episode 394 – Texas Constitutional Carry?

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/394.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment


3- DGU Segment: 

4- Email and Show Close:

1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast sponsored by the Firearms Policy Coalition and a proud founding show on the Self Defense Radio Network. We are recording this show on Sunday, November 27th.  I’m Paul Lathrop.

Rob: I’m Rob Morse, and we talk about the attorney General of Massachusetts, who said that Massachusetts law is what she says it is.

Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone and we’ll talk about how Texas can win all the things that other states already enjoy.

John: I’m John Richardson and we’ll also discuss about the moves for Constitutional Carry in multiple states.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGU’s we have an update on the concealed carrier that saved a cop …. so climb aboard

Rob: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  Episode 394 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- Carried every day.  Posted another episode of Self-Defense Gun Stories with Jenna Meek as my instructor.  I joined Bill Frady on Lock and Load Radio.  I had my family home for thanksgiving, and I got to take my brother shooting.

John- I’m sorry I missed the last show. It was due to what I call the Olivia Daycare virus which hit all of us. I was a guest on Cheryl and Dan Todd’s Gun Freedom Radio the weekend after the election. Gun Freedom Radio In gun news I finished assembling my AR pistol. It is a mixture of used and new parts which is typical of most of my ARs. Finally, we’ve had a number of wildfires all over WNC. I’d like to thank the firefighters from around the country that have responded. With luck, we’ll get some good rain this week.

Rachel- Can’t believe it’s been 6 weeks since I was on the show??? ON the other hand, feels almost like 6 months

  • Florida trip: MAG-30 and MAGIC (shoutout to Tracy for the motivation to go!)
    • Gear requirements: full setup (gun, holster, mags/speedloaders & holders) for primary gun, primary gun mirror image, back-up gun (smaller carry gun), revolver, and spare gun.
    • MAG-30: several single speed quals, double speed, triple speed
    • MAGIC: 5-10 normal single speed quals; single speed with mirror image, revolver, and back-up gun; quad speed
    • 4k rounds primary gun
    • David Maglio (https://www.facebook.com/david.maglio/) – can’t say enough good things about his instruction and the way he structures his courses for maximum value for each round.
    • 9mm and Glock 19 won for me – end of my experiment trying to prove others are better.
    • Quad speed: didn’t know I could shoot so fast accurately
    • Personal best in consistency and growth
  • LTC classes: for little guns — Bersa Thunder fails, Ruger LCP/LC9 works, S&W Shield wins
  • S&W Shield: good (works great, easy function – go without the thumb safety), bad (fewer rounds for carry), ugly (broken spring – known issue, but S&W *did* overnight me another after I pressed them about it)
  • Subscribe to TFF YouTube channel….. #constitutionalcarry here we come!

Gary- R U K1dd1ng M3 – youtube

Blogger and show notes

Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/RUK1dd1ngM3

Itunes – Coming Soon

Paul: ***

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

(June 24, 25th 2017.  Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced.  9am -5pm both days. Richmond, IL)

(August 10-13, 2017. MAG-40. Sioux Falls, SD)

(August 26 & 27, 2017. Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced. Sioux Falls, SD)


2- News 1

In her opinion, a Democrat Attorney General can’t violate the second amendment.

Massachusetts Attorney General Maura Healey told a federal court her recent ban on the sale of “Massachusetts-compliant” semi-auto rifles is both within the scope of her duties and complies with the US constitution. In July, Healy declared she was banning the sale of “copycat” rifles.  These rifles shared any common parts such as triggers or bolt carriers with AR-15s, AK-variants and others on the Commonwealth’s prohibited “assault weapons” list.  This led to a rush on stores by gun owners seeking to buy the newly prohibited models, as well as pushback from lawmakers and regulatory agencies. Finally, in September, four gun dealers and a firearms trade advocacy group filed suit in federal court seeking to overturn the new rules. This week, the attorney general’s 53-page response was that the legal challenge is without merit and should be dismissed.

The lawsuit brought against Attorney General Healy raised several objections.

Heally’s ruling is inconsistent with Massachusetts law,

It is unconstitutionally vague, and can be read in a way that violates the Second Amendment.

Healy replied that the allegations should be dismissed, because she is tasked with interpreting Massachusetts law, and that any strain placed on the Second Amendment “imposes no significant burden on the rights of law-abiding individuals to possess a firearm for self-defense in the home.”

Rob- She pretends that the Heller and McDonald cases don’t exist.  States can interpret the Second amendment as a right of the state to bear arms, and that there is no individual rights to bear arms in the home.

John – She is trying to ride this to the governor’s office. I find it very sad that a lesbian fails to see how firearms such as these actually protect the LGBTQ community from abusers. She needs to talk to Erin Palette.

Gary –

Paul – Does anyone know if the SAF is involved?

Rob- Healy is talking to her donors, not her voters.

The news media has noticed an increase in gun sales to minorities, gays, and women. They are trying to portray it as a reaction to the election of Donald Trump. Comments?



Gary –

Rachel-Many of us had an inciting incident or encounter that woke us up to the possibility that we could need to protect ourselves, and made us want to carry a gun. If this is what woke them up, then good. I want more people awakened and taking personal responsibility.

John- Larry Correia has come out with a guide for liberals  interested in gun ownership.  –http://monsterhunternation.com/2016/11/14/a-handy-guide-for-liberals-who-are-suddenly-interested-in-gun-ownership/

Constitutional Carry: South Dakota, North Dakota, Texas, …..who’s next?



FAQ on constitutional carry: http://www.texasfirearmsfreedom.com/how-well-do-you-understand-constitutional-carry/

How would you explain Constitutional Carry?

Did you know that 20% of states allow it?

Does the data show more or less violent crime in those states?

What about needing a permit for reciprocity?

When can we get Constitutional Carry in Texas?

3 things we cannot fail to do: COME to hearings (commit now!), CALL your reps (now, and during session when bills get “stuck”), and CONNECT with TFF or another organization for action alerts


Rob- Politicians appeal to their narrow voting blocks and their political donors.  With gerrymandering, politicians choose their voters, not the other way around.  Politicians want to drive their political opponents from their states.  We are seeing the big sort as people chose their politicians by moving to another state.


Rob- End of year donations?

Gun Quote – Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty. Thomas Jefferson

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with defensive gun use.


3- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended to promote thought and discussion, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Update to CCW Carrier’s Save of a Florida Cop – CCW Carriers Assisting Cops
Last week, we covered a story that was developing as we recorded: a CCW holder had saved the life of a police officer being attacked alongside a Florida highway. Praise for the man who shot the attacker off the deputy was immediate and profound. And a local area gun store immediately put a very tangible sign of their appreciation in the hands of the hero.

As a natural part of the investigation, the police took the good samaritan’s handgun into evidence. It will likely remain there for months, if not years. Mark Williams, of the Shoot Straight gun store in Fort Myers, acted to ensure the good guy will continue to have a self-defense gun. Shoot Straight, with the blessing and assistance of the Lee County Sheriff, gave the man a new Springfield XDS.

According to Sheriff Mike Scott; “In a day and age where race is a near-instant focus for media and other pundits in police incidents, the fact is that this hero happens to be a man of color who stopped another man of color from further harming or killing a white cop; thereby reminding us that black lives matter, blue lives matter, and indeed all life matters. We at your Sheriff’s Office remain proud to serve and focused on the mission.”

We also applaud the CCW holder, as well as Shoot Straight and the Lee County Sheriff’s Department for their civic duty.  This is just another reminder that the police and the citizens are on the same team and can and should work in support of one another. This has been a hard week for law-enforcement, with five officers shot in the line of duty, two fatally. We stand with those that stand to “Protect and Serve”.   

Gas Station Clerk v. Armed Serial Robber

A robber attacked and shot a gas station attendant before being fatally wounded himself. Matthew Brown, 20, was in the midst of a Tallahassee, Florida crime spree when he stopped to prey at a Sunoco gas station. He demanded money from the clerk, and backed-up his demands at the point of a gun. The two fought over the gun and the clerk was hit by a round fired from Brown’s gun. The wounded clerk made it to a firearm hidden under the store’s counter and got off a shot in defense of his life. That shot left Brown dying on the station’s floor.  

Police believe Brown committed at least 10 other armed robberies in the past week. The silver Cobra handgun found near the body was seen at the other robberies, as was the distinctive upscale back-pack Brown carried. Brown’s get-away driver was arrested with clothing and zombie and clown masks also linked to the robberies. Kendrick Herring, 26, had been convicted of second-degree murder before being set free on a technicality. He had also served time for felony battery and cocaine possession. Herring was charged with armed robbery, possession of marijuana and cocaine, and murder while engaged in a felony offense. He is being held without bond.

The clerk is expected to recover from his wound. It is no stretch to say hIs use of the gun possibly saved his life.  

Rob- Let’s not confuse success with good practice.

75-Year-Old Shoots Home Invader
A 75-year-old man used a gun to defend his life during a late-night invasion of his Detroit home. One suspect died at the scene, the other is still on the lam. The homeowner awoke around 3 am from noises at his back door. According to police, he found two suspects standing inside his home. The man fired twice, hitting one, who collapsed and died in the home’s backyard. His partner ran off and has not been captured. Both invaders were described as males between 16 and 18.  

Police say the incident remains under investigation.  

CF- Homeowner is in a very difficult position, with intruders in his home and the Detroit Police’s response time measured in many minutes or even hours. Still, it would have probably been better to bunker down in a safe room.

78-Year-Old Grandma Defends Her Life With a Gun

Elaine Stiehl, 78, was preparing to take a nap when she heard suspicious noises from the front of her Atlanta area home. The feisty old grandma grabbed a gun, loaded it and stepped into the hallway. She found two strangers in that hallway. Seeing the gun, the two turned tail and ran from the house into a SUV driven by a female accomplice. The trio sped off but were later caught on the highway. Police recovered two guns (one was stolen), power tools and fur coats.  The criminal masterminds, all looking like an anti-Meth advertisement, have been booked for burglary and theft by receiving stolen property.

As we learned decades ago, you just don’t mess with Grandma’s nap!

Rob- Was grandma good or lucky?


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Well, for better or for worse, we now have a President-Elect Trump.  I’ll leave off of discussing exactly how I feel about that man, but suffice to say that while he is no Clinton, he’s absolutely not my favorite.

I know a lot of us in the gun community are breathing a sigh of relief now.  I understand that.  I would also encourage us to still be mindful of our liberties, both the 2nd amendment and the rest of them.  The Democratic party is learning a harsh lesson about expanding executive power – A strong executive is all well and good, until the winds of change turn against you, and the powers you just enacted turn to your political opponents.  In that spirit, we should all be cautious if Trump turns out to be as authoritarian as he presented himself on the campaign trail – All of our liberties may be at risk if he succeeds in “reforming” libel laws and punishing political opponents, let alone the implications of his “carried out on a stretcher” comments.  We should also be cautious that in our current (and entirely legitimate) fear about Jihadism and radical Islam, we don’t do permanent damage to the institution of religious freedom.  

The grand irony here is that many Democrats are beginning to know why we conservatives have been harping on separation of powers, limited government, and the right to bear arms.  Now that the balance of power is shifting away from their side, they’re looking to these principles, which they snidely ignored and derided before, to protect their liberties.  I have had 2 friends, both transgender, call me up and ask me some questions about the process of becoming armed.  Since this is nearly half of the trans people I know, I think it shows a sudden and decided shift in opinion.  While I think their fears are overstated, we need to understand that for many people, the fear they feel is real, partly because of things Trump said, and partly because of the vastly distorted image of him the media portrayed.

If we really want to safeguard our 2nd amendment rights, I would encourage gun owners to be welcoming to liberals just now warming to the idea of bearing arms.  Too much of our political discourse today is meme-based facebook snark-fests and straw-man misrepresentation of opposing views, and quite often we have no real understanding of why anyone could honestly hold different opinions.  Your show has a history of civil, informed discussion that I would like to see take hold in more places, and your listeners could be a force for change, especially if they are there when these two sides meet at the gun counter.  Listen, inform, be helpful, and help them to learn that the 2nd amendment is their right, too, and they should guard it every bit as jealously as we do.

-Jake from Iowa.

Gary –

I forgot to mention:

Perhaps the most important opportunity we have if liberals begin to show up at ranges and gun shops is to change their minds about Trump voters.  They have been sold a bill of goods that Trump and all of his voters are hateful, racist, mysoginistic xenophobes.  That’s a lie, and in every small interaction we have with people from the other side of the fence, we have a chance to prove it, if only we can stay civil, helpful, and -dare I say it? Compassionate.

-Jake from Iowa

Rob- Trump did more for the acceptance of smaller government in one week than the Libertarian party accomplished in 40 years.

Paul – I said it when the news story was brought up, but will say it again, welcome to the club to any and all that have joined us as gun owners.

Rachel-thank you Jake for the compliment to the show. I appreciate our informed, civil discussions also.

The Pentagon just issued a new policy to allow personnel to apply to carry concealed, personal weapons on military installations!

The federal building prohibition in the U.S. Code still stands, unless specifically excepted by the authority granting permission to carry.  Other locations on a military installation, including possession in cars, would be covered and allowed under this policy. The individual services now get busy writing their own implementing instructions.  It isn’t clear if all commanders will grant authorization to carry, but this policy change sure opens the door to allow it.  Our new President may open the doors further if he delivers on his campaign promises.

Unfortunately, while this is a step in the right direction, it does nothing for most military members in “may issue” states, and states that rarely issue carry licenses to nonresidents (such as Illinois).  

As expected, the arming authority must ensure applicants “Meet applicable federal, State, local, or, as applicable, host-nation requirements to carry a firearm. Proof of compliance may include a concealed handgun license that is valid under federal, State, local, or host-nation law in the location where the DoD property is located.”

Many military members will remain unable to protect themselves because of absurd host state attitudes toward self-defense.

Policy is here, in Section 4:


Thank you,

Kevin (in Illinois)

Rob- an executive order can fix this.  We can change which bases are staffed.  Hint.

Paul- I was going to say what rob just did, but will go a bit farther


Paul- Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob-  I talked about reciprocity between states.  The article is called-  ”Are guns legal in your town, but not next door?”

I wrote a paid article for Second Call Defense.  We see lots of gun owners who imagine they are safe because they own a gun.  A gun does not make you safe.  Your habits make you safe.  That article is called ”Voodoo Gun Owners and Superstitious Self-Defense”

Those articles and more are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland, and at my blog slow facts dot wordpress dot com.

John- We in the gun culture overall won on Election Day. That said, we need to be on our toes as the gun prohibitionists are not quitting. A case in point is the push for so-called “smart guns”. The National Institute of Justice released their final specifications for such technology if it is to be used by law enforcement. This was in response to President Obama’s Executive Memorandum to Justice, Homeland Security, and DOD ordering to research the technology. Moreover, gun controllers are shifting their attention to the states where they have had more success. We need to be aware and be ready to crush their moves wherever and whenever it comes up.

Gary- We’d like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com

Paul – Shot show

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  So for Charlie Foxtrot, Craig, Gary, Rachel, Susan,Charlotte, and Rob,  Until the next time…

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: stay safe,

Gary: be aware,

Rachel: and we’ll see y’all down the road.

Episode 356 – With What, Harsh Words?

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/356.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment: 

2- News Segment 1:

3- News Segment 2

4- News Segment 3

5- Interview Segment 2: Guest Jim Fleming – Author Aftermath – Lessons in Self Defense 

6- DGU Segment:

7- Email and Show Close:


1- Introduction

“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
Paul: Welcome to the Polite Society Podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Sunday, November 29, 2015.  I’m Paul Lathrop.
Rob- I’m Rob Morse and President Obama said the world would be a fine place if only we had more gun regulations.
John: I’m John Richardson, we have a lot of news, and we’ll talk about being on a terrorists watch list.. with no way to get off.
Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our defensive gun use stories, a Houston gun owner had to fight off eight criminals .. so climb aboard
Rob: strap in
John : and hang on!
Paul:  episode 356 starts right now.
Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- I took a great training course in San Antonio, Texas taught by Ben Branam, Bob Mayne, Chaz Murray and Tracy Thronburg.  Meeting them and John Edeen was absolutely worth it.  This is the class you want after you can present your firearm from a holster.  I wish every concealed carrier took a class like this.  As a bonus, I saw bullets in flight.

I carried in Texas, and when I came home I found my Louisiana permit waiting for me.  I’ve carried all week.

(Anyone want to know more about the class?  point shooting, close contact defense, Sul position 360 scan, one handed shooting, shooting from unusual positions, and we got to shoot at night with a flashlight)

John – This week has been mostly about family. We had a wonderful Thanksgiving with my daughter and son-in-law. My granddaughter Olivia Grace is just a smiling, laughing, crawling bundle of joy.

In terms of gun-related stuff, there have been a few things. I had coffee yesterday morning with David Yamane who we’ve had on the show. He does academic research on Gun Culture 2.0 and blogs about it at his blog by the same name. I also have been taking advantage of too many of the Black Friday sales to finish getting parts for various projects at a good price. I made the mistake of checking Arfcom’s thread on good deals. Finally, I got my wife Barb’s Christmas present. All I’ll say in case she is listening is that it is black and purple and made by Mossberg.
Gary – What training do you have coming up?
Rob- Where is your Illinois meeting?
ISRA – Grassroots
You would find items of interest in your area, with guest speakers, legislative updates, open discussion and more.  While the initial roll-out of the meetings might be similar, expect the grassroots group in your area to evolve to be more meaningful to the people in attendance.
Promo about upcoming training classes here.


2- News 1

1 Gun Salesman in Chief
(WHERE IS THE LINK?) In the wake of the Colorado Planned Parenthood shooting, Obama immediately took to his teleprompters to demand tighter controls on military-style weapons. As if millions of gun owners must bear the whip for the actions of one demented man. We certainly mourn the deaths of the policeman and the other two persons; however, the proposed restrictions will not — can not — eliminate these tragedies as the president petulantly demanded. The cost of these restrictions will be far greater to our rights and freedoms than any possible gains.

Obama declared “enough is enough” in a speech just hours after the resolution of the incident. The clearly piqued Obama stated that we have to do the infamous “something” about the easy accessibility of weapons of war on our streets to people who have no business wielding them. The demonization of the commonly available firearm through the nonsensical labels of military-”style” weapons and “weapons of war” are as false as the demand to “do something.”

With these demands, Obama looks to to distract from his flailing presidency and provide the Democrat candidates with an issue that will ignite their somewhat disinterested Progressive base. But, we can assure our pen and phony president, this too will not pass.

What we know about the Colorado murder suspect.

Rob comment- Doesn’t Colorado already have magazine capacity limits and mandatory registration?.. yet those gun control measures failed.. again.

John – One thing that I learned in a class on public policy analysis was that often the best option is to do nothing.

2 Obama Wants Gun Control During His Last Months in Office

It seems that in the last months of the Obama administration, the worst is yet to come.   As his administration grinds toward a halt, the president is facing a foreign policy in collapse, a faltering economy, the unworkable mess of Obamacare, a reinvigorated opposition, and an agenda that has thankfully fallen far short of the fundamental change that he hoped to force on America.

In his last presidential year, finally free of the election constraints, Obama seems poised to abuse his executive powers. And the nation’s gun owners are clearly in his sights. Last week, Obama publicized his intention to elevate gun control to the top of his agenda in his final year. In the GQ magazine interview, Obama said he feels “looser” and more confident in his decisions and thus more willing to put his opinions above all others. Presidential advisor Valerie Jarrett says Obama is not a lame-duck and promises that “Really big things are coming.”

Cheered on by his minions in the media, Obama is pushing the blatantly fascistic Terror Watch List Gun Ban. This bill would put our basic rights at the mercy of secret, unaccountable, unchallengeable government bureaucracies – an obvious, immediate threat to our liberties. There’s little in the current proposals to prevent the president from declaring the NRA a terrorist organization and trying to disarm it’s 5 million members. The bill has little chance of passage, but it’s failure might provide the excuse Obama needs to wield his phone and pen once again. As could any mass murder event.

It seems this last year will be the most dangerous of the already disastrous Obama years. You know what you need to do: stay involved, talk to your family, friends and the people you meet, join a gun rights organization and contribute your money and time. But most of all, stay aware. These are dangerous times. And they’re getting more dangerous by the day.

John – If you are on any the gun control gun lists such as Brady, they are constantly pushing for Obama to do extra-legal efforts by using his executive powers.

Paul – We can get good things done while Obama is in office.

3 You’re on a list and you can’t get off

Following the president’s lead, many anti-gun politicians released press releases last week saying we should stop all gun transfers to people who end up on the TSA no fly list or the FBI’s terrorist watch list.  There is at least one large problem with those proposals.  We have no way to find out if we are on such a list, find out why we are on the list and find out how to exonerate ourselves from false charges placing us on the list. Now I’m sure you’re as trusting as I am and couldn’t imagine a politician putting gun owners or political rival on the list simply to disarm them.

Right.  I thought so.

We have due process here in the United States.. at least until the president eliminates them with his phone and his pen.  This raises another question.  If these are KNOWN terrorists why are they walking around free in the first place rather than facing legal charges in court?

Paul- as you’d expect, the anti-gun politicians blamed the NRA for supporting terrorists when the NRA opposed this extra legal restriction on gun owners.

4 DC Police Chief Says Citizens Should Prepare For Active Shooters And Terrorist Attacks
This certainly got our attention: Noted hard-line progressive DC Police Chief Cathy Lanier is now saying that citizens should either run, hide or fight an active shooter or terrorist. She now holds that taking out the gunmen in a Paris-style attack is the “best option” for citizens”. But how? The same Chief Lanier has been active in denying DC residents the right to keep and carry firearms. She continues to defy the US Supreme Court and their pro Second Amendment rulings.  

While we heartily agree with Chief Lanier’s advice not to cower, but to fight the terrorists; we wonder just what she expects the second class citizens of DC to fight with?  She and her cohorts have effectively disarmed the DC populace — while, as Paris shows, not really doing anything to stop the terrorist from obtaining real weapons of war. Let’s call this a case of reality intruding on Lanier’s carefully constructed gun-free fantasies. Lanier’s sudden change in direction has us wondering: just what the heck does she know? And why isn’t she telling us?

Rob- There are only 51 licensed citizens in Washington, D.C.

Paul- what are we to fight them with harsh words?

5 Magazine Restrictions Don’t Reduce Mass Murder

Politicians waging war on our right of self-defense told us that magazine capacity restrictions would stop or greatly reduce mass murders.  That claim always sounded silly to any gun owner.  Now, criminologist Gary Kleck tested that claim.. and he found out that anti-rights politicians lied to us.

We saw capacity restrictions written into law in California, Colorado and New York after the murders at the Sandy Hook elementary school in Connecticut.  Kleck researched both recent and past murders to see if the bans on large-capacity magazines made a difference in the number of casualties.  Kleck assumed that a magazine ban would actually keep a mass murderer from using a high capacity magazine if the accessory was outlawed.

The FBI classifies mass murder as being four or more victims, but Kleck examined 88 mass shooting incidents in which more than six people were killed or wounded.  He chose 6 victims as a threshold since even a simple revolver could kill six people without reloading and a small number of victims might not measure the claim of increased lethality with high capacity magazines.  Even with this restrictive definition Kleck found that magazines holding over 10 rounds were used in only 21 of the 88 mass murder incidents.  That means in 76 percent of the incidents, a large-capacity magazine ban would have made no difference in the number of victims.

Kleck then analyzed the 21 incidents in which a large-capacity magazine was used. In every case, the shooters carried either multiple guns or multiple magazines. Therefore, even without a high-capacity magazine, the shooters could easily switch guns or magazines.

Kleck found out that the rate of fire in mass shooting was so slow that having to change guns or magazines did not reduce the number of casualties.  

Mass murderers want to kill a lot of people.  Their desire leads to a large number of casualties until police arrive.  The choice of a large-capacity magazine may reflect the murderer’s desire, but it does not cause more deaths.

Gary- This makes so much sense to me.  The police won’t arrive for 10 minutes, and it only takes me a second to reload.  Of course magazine capacity doesn’t change the number of victims.

John – The key to these mass murders was the desire to kill many people. Not the tool.

3-  News 2

1 It must be nice to be above the law at taxpayer expense

Gavin Newsom is the Lieutenant Governor of California, and the Democrat heir apparent to become governor in 2018.  That takes money, and Newsom knows right where to turn for campaign contributions.  Newsom sponsored a ballot initiative in California to outlaw all ammunition magazines that hold more than 10 rounds.  The initiative would also require a background check to buy ammunition.  This in turn, would require that all stores that sell ammunition would have to become Federal Firearms Licensees.  This is another tax on honest gun owners in California.

We reported on the Chicago study that showed criminals never get their guns at gun shows and gun stores, so criminals never go through a background check.  Criminals get their guns illegally, so criminals would simply get their ammunition the same way.  None of those facts matter if the low-information California voter only listens the the headlines in the news.

If that wasn’t enough to make your blood boil, Newsom has a hand picked armed security detail that costs the taxpayers tens of millions of dollars a year.  Guns for me, but not for you little people.

Rob- Requires an instant background check, but might use a California background check system.

I don’t think the policemen who work on Newsom’s security detail are members of Oathkeepers.

John – I wonder if Newsom wants to have a 10 day waiting period for ammo as well.

2 Of course they want guns on base

The Rasmussen organization took a poll of almost 2 thousand service men.  By a margin of over five to one, the servicemen want to carry firearms for self-defense on base.  The support was strong in every service, in the reserve, and among retired military.  There is a rider on the current defense authorization act that allows servicemen to carry concealed.  President Obama even said he would sign it once the legislation makes its way to his desk.

3 Only conservatives can be racist at University of Texas

Two Texas professors said that the right to bear arms on campus wasn’t about self-defense.  The UT profs claimed the desire to be armed was about white males feeling threatened since they were racists and theists.  That claim was answered rather well.

A female hispanic economics student from Texas Christian University said self-defense is pro-choice.  In this case, it is the choice not to be raped. Quote, “feminists are looking at the aftermath of rape but are neglecting to look at ways to enable women to stop it from happening in the first place. How can feminists advocate for protection of their uteruses but condemn the right to protect their whole bodies? Women should be fighting for more than just their reproductive systems.”  Close quote.

A black female graduate student answered the charges also.  She said, Quote “As a black woman and a graduate student at UT-Dallas, I have no interest in displaying white male power to slaves, women, African-Americans, or anyone else, and I’m certainly not interested in pushing back against the Civil Rights Movement or promoting an ideology of white racism.  I am, however, interested in being able to defend myself should the need arise. Campus carry isn’t about arming dangerous bigots; it’s about ensuring that I’m able to defend myself if confronted by one.”  close quote.

Well said.  The university has to develop a plan to allow concealed carry on campus by next summer.

4 We had to destroy his gun safe in order to save it

Celebrity and  professional poker player Dan Bilzerian was away when his home was robbed in September.  A security alarm and a caretaker at his Hollywood home stopped thieves from taking Bilzerian’s guns.  Bilzerian had most of his firearms locked securely in his gun vault.  That stopped the thieves, but the vault didn’t stop the Los Angeles Police.  The police broke into the vault, took nine handguns, but left valuable long guns behind.  The police said they were taking the guns “for the owner’s protection”.  It took eight weeks for a lawyer to get Bilzerian’s guns back, but the police kept the magazines and the ammunition.

Attorney Joseph Silvoso from the law firm of Michel & Associates, said he has seen numerous incidents in which police responded to a crime scene, and then confiscated guns without a warrant.

Another Los Angeles gun owner had previously filed a 4.8 million dollar lawsuit against the LA PD for a similar invasion.. and destruction of his firearms collection.

Paul- no, officer, you can not search for my firearms.  You can not have them, secure them or touch them without a warrant.

Gary- I read the entire article in the Washington Times.. and they do not like the Los Angeles Police Department.

Comment from Charlie Foxtrot- From personal observation: The LAPD, aka Lap Dogs, is a highly politicized organization. Like their political masters, the department is rabidly anti-gun. They’re also more interested in writing speeding tickets and harassing jaywalkers than confronting the drug gangs that own the city’s underside.  There are a tremendous amount of good cops wearing the LAPD Blue – but the organization’s leaders are hopelessly, aggressively politically correct.

5 Michigan FINALLY Becomes Shall Issue

The state of Michigan will finally close down its three-member county gun boards on Tuesday.  These boards will no longer issue, deny, revoke or suspend firearms licenses. Now, county clerks will issue or deny a license after the state police conduct a background check.  An initial license will have to be issued or disqualified within 45 days of fingerprints being taken instead of within 45 days of a licensing board getting a fingerprint analysis from the state police. A renewal must be issued or denied within 30 days instead of the current 60-day deadline.

This is another step toward making Michigan a true “shall-issue” state, in which a permit has to be issued as long as an applicant has taken a gun safety course, has no felony convictions and meets other requirements such as not being subject to a protection order.

4- News 3

1 Signs Come and Signs Go at Houston Zoo

The Houston Zoo put its no-guns allowed signs up again.  The signs came down three months ago after the zoo was threatened with a lawsuit.  That is when Texas Law Shield sent a demand letter to the Houston Zoo because  the zoo sits on city property even though the zoo is privately owned.

Now, the Houston zoo claims it is an educational institution and does not have to comply with Texas concealed carry laws.  A spokesman for Texas law shield said the zoo’s argument is flimsy because there is no educational curriculum, academic accreditation, or the ability to obtain an academic degree at the zoo.   Citizens may file complaints about unlawful gun restrictions with the Texas  attorney general’s office.  Fines run up to $10,000 per day.

Rob- A teacher takes a second job and the restaurant becomes an educational institution?

2 Voices of Reason in the United States

Some responsible broadcasters understand the purpose of armed citizens.  You and I will always be the first responders until the government gets there.  Broadcaster John Stossel pointed out that there were 1500 people at the music concert in France where they were attacked by muslim terrorists.  There were thousands at the soccer stadium where they were attacked.  What might have happened if a few of the 1,500 concert attendees in Paris’ Bataclan theater had guns?  The police unit didn’t come for more than a half hour. The terrorists had time to kill, reload and kill again.  They killed their victims at point blank range.  Stossel asks “If a few people in the theater were armed, might they have killed the killers?”

We’ll never know. France’s guns laws say you may not carry a gun unless police certify that you are “exposed to exceptional risks of harm” to your life. Few people even bother to apply.  That bureaucratic arrogance isn’t confined to France.  Here in the United States, that is the same way we treat the citizens of New York City, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Jose, San Francisco, Baltimore and Washington, DC.

John – regardless of being armed -1500 people vs. 3 with guns. Yes some would be killed but the terrorists could have been overwhelmed.

Paul – more about the article. Stossel himself has been denied a NYC gun permit.

Rob- Someone might be hurt by self defense?  Reporters and academics want perfect solutions

3 There is more to Europe than Paris and Brussels

We saw an article from the website Czech Gunlaw that made a clear distinction between the European Union and the Czech Republic.  This distinction became stronger after the European Union proposed more gun laws following the muslim attack in Paris.  It might surprise you to know the Czech Republic has shall issue gun laws.  They own, transport, and carry semi-automatic handguns and long guns.   The Czech republic also has an unusually low rate of violent crime.  What sounds absolutely familiar is that the pro-gun website asked Czech gun owners to write their representatives to resist more gun bans from the European Union.

Does that sound familiar?

Rob- The Czechs have some odd ammunition restrictions, but the also started a competition modeled after IDPA.  Good for them.

John – The Czechs also has a good firearms industry. CZ makes some excellent firearms.

4- Wisconsin allows automatic knives

A Wisconsin man was arrested for possession of a switchblade knife.  The Wisconsin court ruled that knives are arms, and therefore possession is at least allowed in the home.

First, the State argued that the knife ban serves an important governmental objective by protecting the public from the danger of potentially lethal surprise attacks posed by individuals using switchblade knives.  However, the State cites no evidence to establish that this danger actually exists, particularly since the wisconsin man was arrested for possession of a knife in his own home.

The court found-

-That knives are no more lethal than handguns.

-That there should not be different levels of legal protection for different types of arms that all fall under the Second Amendment based on their popularity.

-That switchblades have certain advantages over guns and over other knives for some people.  For example, an automatic knife is safer than a gun or a fixed blade knife and can be just as effective. For safety reasons people with children may not want guns around the house.  People with limited financial resources who may not be able to afford a proper gun likely would be able to afford an effective $10 automatic knife.

-That for people who are excluded from lawful gun ownership, an automatic knife may be the most effective arm available.

-That whether one applies intermediate scrutiny or strict scrutiny to the switchblade ban, the ban fails such scrutiny, at least as applied to home possession.

Rob comment- this implies that my concealed carry permit should allow me to carry a knife as well, but Wisconsin makes it illegal to carry “a concealed and dangerous weapon”.

John- Nappen’s new book on knife laws?


Gary – Knife Rights – Illinois Bill Would Allow Switchblades with CCW License – CALL or WRITE TODAY! https://shar.es/1cJVCr

5 Surge in concealed carry applications after paris attacks

The news media likes to frighten us.  They told us that bad people use guns.  This probably wasn’t the outcome the media intended, but a record number of us decided we want a gun since the world can be a dangerous place.  There was a record surge in gun sales and concealed carry permit applications all across the United States after the terrorist murders in Paris.  The application rate has roughly doubled.

Gary, have you seen an increase in students for your Illinois concealed carry classes?

Paul- We’re coming up to a break, but I want to say something about the news.  We try to bring you the highlights each week, but there are many stories we can’t fit into the podcast because there is so much to cover.  We do our best and apologize if we left out a story that is important to you.

Who has the gun quote?  How about you, (Gary)

Gun Quotes

We are advised NOT to judge all Muslims by the actions of a few million fanatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few dozen lunatics. Funny how that works.  Modified from the original Facebook

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest Jim Flemming.


5- Interview 1- Lawyer Jim Fleming, author of “Aftermath – Lessons in Self-Defense”
What to expect after shooting stops
Duty to rescue
Every shooting is a crime scene
Use your phone to document bystanders


6- DGUs
Our first four DGUs are all about a single person surviving the assault of multiple criminals — with the essential help of their own firearm.

1-eight against one in Houston

Two carloads of thugs stopped in front of a home in Houston, Texas.  Six to eight men piled out of the cars and forced their way into a nearby home.  A neighbor was walking down the sidewalk when the home invasion happened.  The neighbor walked towards the home, and one of the thugs drew his gun.  The neighbor was carrying concealed and he shot one of the robbers.  The other men left the scene and abandoned one of the cars.  The wounded robber died at the scene. The abandoned getaway car was stolen.   The one person inside the home at the time of the robbery was not injured.

Rob- This gun owner must have liked his neighbors..disparity of force

..evening the odds

Paul – is your six shot revolver enough?

Gary – My 8 shot 1911 wasn’t enough so I bought a 15 shot 1911

2-Four Against One in San Antonio
Four teenagers were in the process of turning their lives around when they were interrupted by a homeowner. Unfortunately, they were in the home of the owner — and the Texan was armed. Two of the robbers were arrested and charged with burglary. A third, sporting a graze wound to the chest, was remanded to juvenile detention. The fourth, a 19-year-old woman, died after pulling out a window air-conditioner and confronting the homeowner. Lest you shed too many tears, an open bag was found next to her with a gun, some burglary tools and a checkbook belonging to the homeowner’s wife. Police said she also had an opened knife on the floor next to her.

Police arrested the surviving teens hiding in a house a block away. They also found stolen items from the crime scene. “This is not the first time they tried to rob them,” police said. The two adult burglars remain in jail on bonds totally $20,000 each. This bail seems absurdly low for what may well become felony murder charges with the justifiable death of their female accomplice. The homeowner is not expected to face charges. Thankfully, the homeowner and his three children are OK, and trying to get over what happened.

3-Three Against One in Philly

A Philadelphia homeowner was forced to defend his life against three home invaders. Final Score: Homeowner: 2 — Robbers 0. Three masked males tried to rob a homeowner early in the evening, but a firearm allowed him to even the odds. The homeowner shot the 18-year-old multiple times in the chest and right side. His 15-year-old accomplice suffered a shot to the finger. The third suspect was not injured. Both the injured males were rushed by private auto to the hospital where they are listed in stable condition.

Comment: Use enough gun.  

4-Two against one in Jacksonville, Florida

A jewelry store owner in Jacksonville, Florida was closing up shop.  He was locking his back door when two masked men tried to force their way in at gun point.  The three men fought and the store owner was shot in the arm.  The store owner got his own gun and shot one of the robbers.  The store owner then staggered to the front of the store and collapsed.  A security guard from a nearby grocery store applied a tourniquet and called police.  The wounded thief was dumped at a nearby hospital and died a few hours later.

Rob- comment- wear your gun

Gary – stay in the fight

Paul – first aid can save a life

5-One on one in Houston

A woman in her mid 30s parked her car at a Houston, Texas gas station.  It was about 6pm and she was still sitting in the driver’s seat when a man pulled open the passenger side door and and climbed in.  The man then pulled a knife and demanded her money.  The female driver promised the thief her wallet.  She reached into her purse and pulled out her gun.  She shot the robber one time in his left shoulder.  The thief ran from the gas station and collapsed a quarter mile away.  Police found the thief and evacuated him by helicopter due to severe loss of blood.  He is now listed in stable condition at Texas Medical Center, and is being charged with aggravated robbery.  The driver was licensed to carry a concealed weapon and police said the shooting appears to be self-defense.

Gary –

6-Utility Worker Kills Armed Thug

We’ve another self-defense incident from the annals of Crazy Town, also known at North St Louis. Several utility workers were laboring on water lines when they were approached by an armed man.  The robber took the wallets of two workers at gunpoint. He then demanded that the third get his belongings from the work truck. Fortunately, the victim had stored a handgun in the truck and he used it to defend his life and shoot the robber in the chest. Police said the 17-year-old criminal died at the scene.

The St. Louis County Police Department’s Bureau of Crimes Against Persons is investigating the incident as an act of self-defense and the robbery victim is not expected to be charged.  

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


7- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

This week’s email is from Rustie (that’s the way he spells it)
Hi Paul,
Longtime listener here. I salute you for all the hard work you do to put the podcast up, even while driving all over America. I figure there must be at least three Pauls, to get all this done.
I heard you say that you are having back problems and will transition out of driving truck. As a longtime back problem sufferer, may I suggest that you transition sooner than later. It may not get better at some point, and that will color the rest of your life’s plans and activities.  Even driving taxi or delivery may not be good idea.
You are a natural “radio” speaker and perhaps you can find work in this line.
Thanks again to all the participants at Polite Society. You are a great team and a valuable resource to the firearms community.

Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Rob- First the broadcast media hid the news of armed self-defense.  We are seeing gun ownership and concealed carry grow despite that distortion from the media.  Next, the anti-rights bigots lied about us.  My article about those distortions and fabrications is titled “Lies the Gun-Prohibitionists Told Me”.  My writing is up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and on my blog slow facts dot wordpress dot com.
“What do you do after you have your concealed carry permit?”
“Lies the gun prohibitionists told me”

John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money

John- Over the last two weeks, the New York Daily News has been pushing to have those on the FBI’s Terrorist Screening Database aka the no-fly list added to the list of prohibited persons. They have used very incendiary front pages attacking the NRA with headlines like “NRA’s Sick Jihad” and “Nowhere to Hide, Jihadi Wayne”. I wrote about both of these front pages and have pointed out that any “suspected” person still has to get FBI approval before buying a firearm. The criteria for getting on the list is weak and the ability to get off is hard. What the Daily News and those in the gun prohibitionist community are doing is urging Congress to ignore the Constitution and especially the Fourth Amendment.

That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.

We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Jim Fleming for joining us today.  co-hosts, will you be with us next time?  I’m looking forward to it.  Until the next time…
Rob: stay safe,
Gary: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Episode 346 – Bloomberg for President?

Please check out Armed Citizens Network and New Shooter Canada!

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/346.mp3

Open and Personal News Segment:

News Segment 1:

News Segment 2:


Cornered Cat Quick Tips Segment: 

DGU Segment:

Email and Show Close:



“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast presented by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded Sunday August 30th 2015, I’m Paul Lathrop

Kelly : I’m Kelly Lynn from the New Shooter Canada Podcast, and since Rob is still working on his move this week I am stepping in to help co-host..

Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone, and we have good news about carrying knives in Texas.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about the Virginia on air killings

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGU’s a fast food worker defends himself while working the drive thru, so climb aboard

Kelly: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 346 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Seg 1- Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rachel- Went to my local A Girl & A Gun chapter girl’s night out – shot my Glock, gave new shooter instructional, and coached shooters. Signed up for GRPC range day. Running and working out to get ready for the Pecos Run N Gun.


John – I spent yesterday morning and part of the afternoon at the Greensboro, NC gun show. It was the biggest gun show I’ve been to unless you count the SHOT Show or NRA Annual Meeting. When we got there the line for time had about 35-50 people in it! The show itself was a good mixture of the old and the new with some junk thrown in. For every 2 ARs, I saw one Colt Python. I also – and please don’t tell Mike Bloomberg this – engaged in a private transaction that was in full compliance with NC law. A nice Ruger Security-Six – the predecessor of the GP-100 revolver – came home with me. I think it probably spent most of its life in a holster. The barrel was clean except for some cobwebs!


Throw to Kelly here

John – Kelly, I have a question re Appleseed

Gary – What training do you have coming up?


Paul says-  Rob made it to Louisiana, and a big moving truck is in front of his house right now.  He got to visit with friends on his drive east.  He had dinner with Charles Heller in Tucson, Arizona.  He also visited with Ben Branam and John Edeen in San Antonio, Texas.  Anyone who thinks the US is crowded has not driven US Highway 10 from Tucson to San Antonio.  Rob is writing about gun owners who “don’t want to be on a list”.  He has an internet connection in his new house, so he should be on next week’s podcast.


I am going to insert a live promo about upcoming training classes here.



Seg 2- News


Two Journalists Killed On-Air

Two Roanoke, Virginia TV journalists were killed on-air by a deeply disturbed former coworker. The killer then posted his own video of the shooting to Twitter and Facebook and faxed a 23 page rant to ABC News before killing himself several hours later.  Per our longstanding principles, we will not broadcast the killer’s name, nor sensationalize his so-called reasons. We do express our sincere condolences to the friends and families of the victims of this senseless attack.  

The killer was still at large when politicians and activists elbowed their way onto the airwaves and social media. Candidates Clinton and O’Malley were quick to focus on the gun, as was the White House. Without even a significant fraction of the facts, they recited the usual half-truths, spin and nonsensical “common-sense” demands. Of course, Bloomberg’s minions were not far behind. Many remarked on how extraordinarily quick the anti-gun response was. Universally, the gun was the thing demonized.  


However, it’s the chattering class and the media that are very likely the real reason for this tragedy. This attack was the direct spawn of the media’s obsessive fascination with mass killings and the killers. The attack was designed from the start to get the attention the killer longed for. He wanted to ensure a stage for his beliefs, his perceived wrongs and himself. The killer brought his own body camera, stalked the news team, waited until they were on-air, then delayed his attack until the perfect moment when the news camera returned to the reporter. It is the stuff of cold, calculated madness — and showmanship. The killer – and the media – got what they wanted.  


Now, the pro-rights community must once again defend itself and it’s Constitutional Rights. It’s again time to stand up, to refute the lies and half-truths, and to actively support those that support them.  The law-abiding, the rational, the sane, will be facing a flood of the usual, emotion-driven, nonsensical attempts to limit their freedoms with a host of ultimately ineffective laws.  


Related to this story, Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke was on the Fox news Hannity show the day after the shooting, after President Obama renewed his calls for more gun control. Sheriff Clarke had the following quote. “Here’s my challenge to the president of the United States, You think this is so easy? Forego your Secret Service protection for you, for the first lady and your children, and see what it’s like to have to defend yourself, And then we’ll sit down and have a conversation so you know what we here at ground level have to deal with on a daily base in terms of self-defense.”


[Our commentators may want to remark that the media is having a rough time – as the shooter was a black, gay, progressive, anti-gun, disaffected, Obama supporting racist – leading them to focus almost  exclusively on the gun and anti-gunners. He passed the background check. He apparently would not have used all the rounds in a limited 10 round magazine. Most of the anti’s demands would have made ZERO change to this atrocity.


This is an extremely important story – if anyone has any suggestions how the article or the one beneath can be improved – please sing out! ]   

John – The reason we didn’t hear about the killer as much as the gun was that he didn’t fit the usual constructs. He was a gay African-American man which meant he was sacrosanct.


John – It got a lot of press because of two facts- video and they were journalists.


Paroled Violent Repeat Felon Kills 9 Year Old

Just how effective gun laws can – or can’t – be is shown in the tragic death of Jamyla Bolden. The precocious 9 year-old was killed in her mother’s Ferguson, Missouri bedroom while doing homework. The murderer that fired into Jamyla’s house had a significant felony record, including weapons violations. Despite his prior arrests and convictions, he was free to roam the streets. Months before, he had been convicted of an armed drug robbery and was sentenced to 10 years in prison. But the judge commuted his sentence to just 5 years of probation, sending him back into the public once more. And a beautiful, intelligent, vibrant little girl was laid to rest this Saturday as a direct result.  

The Pro-Rights community often points out that gun laws only affect the law-abiding; criminals naturally operate outside those laws. However, laws are especially ineffective when the authorities choose not to enforce those laws. For reasons of ease, expense, misguided compassion or the desire to hide uncomfortable demographic truths, the prevalent “Catch and Release” philosophy is tearing at our society’s perception of justice. And it’s  just one more reason why we must stay armed and alert.  We. Are. On. Our. Own.  (Michael Bane)




Texas Knife Law Preemption Goes Into Effect Sept 1


We on the podcast have often criticized the knife laws and policies of certain Texas cities such as San Antonio. That all changes on September 1st when Texas HB 905 goes into effect. It is legislated state knife law preemption such that no county or municipality can have a knife law more restrictive than state law.


The immediate impact is that it invalidates the knife ordinances in Corpus Christi and San Antonio. These two cities made Knife Rights Worst 10 list for the knife ordinances. Moreover, the 2013 Texas law change allowing automatic or switchblade knives will now be effective throughout the state. Knife Rights and its volunteers are combing city and county ordinances searching for locales whose ordinances are now invalid.


John – Knife law preemption like state gun law preemption should be the rule in all states. Unfortunately, it isn’t.

Gary – Illinois State Senator Tim Bevins has introduced legislation, SB 711, that would legalize switchblade (automatic) knives for anyone who holds an Illinois concealed carry license, as well as for peace officers. It includes legalization to manufacture and sell to these individuals. – See more at: http://www.kniferights.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=304#sthash.AHvJhTgs.dpuf

Rachel- believe it or not, it took multiple sessions to get this passed

John – I’d like to say this about switchblade bans – it was the result of politicians seeing West Side Story.


Seattle gets hit with lawsuit


A hat tip to Bob Owens over at bearingarms.com, it’s not like no one warned Seattle that this would happen. Before Seattle Mayor Ed Murray signed the seattle gun and ammo tax into law, The National Shooting Sports Foundation warned him that they would sue the city should he actually sign the ordinance. Well he did, and they did. Actually the NSSF teamed up with the NRA, the SAF, and 2 local gun stores as well as 2 private citizens to file the lawsuit. The attorneys that are representing the plaintiffs are the same ones that won a 2009 suit that required Seattle to follow state preemption law.  


Paul – I don’t know about anyone else, but I really would not want to fight the SAF, the NRA, the NSSF and others all rolled into one. There is a LOT of legal muscle coming to bear here.


John – I’d like to also note the historical significance of this. This lawsuit marks the FIRST time that the SAF, NRA, and NSSF have all been party to the same lawsuit.


Mike Bloomberg for President?


Media mogul Rupert Murdoch seeing the success of Donald Trump is trying to start a Draft Bloomberg for President movement. He made this suggestion in a tweet after the large stock market decline on Monday. He said it was time for Bloomberg to step into the ring and referred to him as the “greatest mayor.”


John – As I titled my blog post on this, Not only no but hell no.


comment – Can you imagine what this nasty little fascist as Michael Bane calls him would do to not only gun rights but all rights?


Gun Quotes

Rifles, muskets, long-bows and hand-grenades are inherently democratic weapons. A complex weapon makes the strong stronger, while a simple weapon — so long as there is no answer to it — gives claws to the weak. — George Orwell


advertisement Concealment Solutions

Segment 3 Kathy Jackson’s Cornered Cat Quick Tips


Segment 4 DGUs

Domestic Violence Victim Shoots Attacker
We’ve covered the tragedy of New Jersey resident Carol Bowne, who died waiting for permission to buy a handgun to defend her life. In this story, we see the difference a gun can make in a domestic violence case.   

Early in the morning, a domestic dispute degraded into violence. Police received a 911 call involving a domestic dispute with the suspect armed with a gun. During the domestic incident the man choked the victim. As the victim escaped, two gunshots were fired striking the man twice. Enterprise police arrived to hear multiple gunshots from inside the home.

A police spokesman said the victim suffered minor injuries. He said the alleged assailant remained hospitalized as of mid Thursday morning. He will be officially arrested when released from the hospital.

Armed Robber Approaches Two Men, Demands Wallets, Gets Killed
After watching a Tennessee Titans football game, two men were standing outside a Nashville house when a SUV stopped in front. Several armed men got out and demanding the friend’s belongings.

While one thief was taking the keys and getting into to a victim’s car, he saw the homeowner drawing his own gun. The thief opened fire and the homeowner shot back, hitting the criminal.  22-year-old Clarence Goins went to his reward in the Nashville street. HIs accomplices fled in the white Jeep Cherokee. Nashville Metro Police said that both victims waited at the scene and cooperated with officers when they arrived.

Our takeaway: even when you’ve just enjoyed watching your team beat the hapless St Louis Rams, criminals can attack. Stay armed – stay aware.  


Home Invasion Lands A Criminal in the Hospital
Another Tennessee homeowner answered a 2:10 am knock on his door. He naturally found three armed men on his stoop. In that touching tablou, everyone began shooting.

The three suspects fled on foot. A short time later, a Mr. Dre’An Whitherspoon entered an Emergency Room with a bullet wound. Dre’An remains in the hospital in stable condition.  Springfield Police Chief David Thompson, believes Whitherspoon was one of the three men involved in the robbery and since they have retrieved the bullet, a ballistics test should confirm he was shot by the victim.

Five people (including a 7-year-old child) were in the home during the robbery but no one in the home was injured. Police believe there is a ring targeting local Hispanics. It is not likely that the victim will face any charges,

Paul – Please, dear listeners, NEVER open the door to someone you do not know or expect. But at 2:10 in the morning — JUST DON’T!




John – This also shows that criminals are targeting communities that they don’t think will fight back.


Fast Food Worker Uses Gun To Ask If There’ll Be Anything More?
In Canton, Ohio, a drive thru worker pulled his own gun when threatened by two armed suspects. The two drove off quickly with the clerk’s response to their order. The suspects, who police did not provide a description for, are wanted for attempted aggravated robbery. The police report did not indicate if they got fries with that.  

Kelly – Canadian perspective re: Home Defence

Gary –


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



Segment 5 Show close


Listener e-mail discussion

The 1st email is from Peter in Virginia


Hi folks,  When/how do you transition from teaching kids Stop, don’t touch, tell an adult and leave the area to the four rules?

My oldest, who turns 5 on Monday, has recently shown a big interest in guns. She got the Eddie Eagle spiel at preschool this past year (I think it was when they had a fireman come in and talk to her class) and we’ve been reinforcing it constantly, whenever she brings up guns.

I finally showed her my collection tonight, after another Eddie Eagle reinforcement, and another couple in the middle and end. I just showed her what each of them was, a little about how they worked, and how to hold/shoulder them. I don’t have a cricket or anything, so she couldn’t really hold any of them, but I let her look through the scope of my Ruger 77-22, which was my first rifle around 30 years ago. She already has a thing for “spotting scopes”, brought on, I think, from cartoons, so she was fascinated. Then Mommy walked in the room and she said, “I want to look at Mommy through the spotting scope”.

Well, that’s pretty much the impetus for the email. We told her, basically, Rule 2, then reinforced the Eddie Eagle thing again, and told her not to tell her friends (which won’t happen, but at least she’s not in school yet, so she may have time to forget before then, and certainly can’t say “I played with Daddy’s guns last night”.)

My current thoughts are:

  1.      Reinforce Eddie Eagle every time she brings up guns.
  2.      Make her tell me the Eddie Eagle rules, without prompting, before getting to see them again.
  3.      When I show her, teach her Rule 2, and reinforce beforehand, and if necessary during.
  4.      She doesn’t get the mechanisms yet, so rule 1 and 3 are over her head, but once she gets what the trigger does, I’ll add 3.

Ya’ll have any thoughts on how to handle it better? I know there’s a video out there on Kkds and guns that got brought up on the podcast a while back, that I’m going to find and watch soon, but anything else?


Peter in Virginia.





Next we got another email from Clayton in Minnesota


Alright grumblers here is some gosh darn Minnesota nice for you!

Minnesota does give out non resident permits that can be applied for at any sheriff office in the state.
If you come within a couple hours of me during a visit to the great white north here, I’ll give you a “name your price” class and accept as little as a penny to show my appreciation for all your time and effort to the Polite Society Podcast. I have lots of guns and ammo we can qualify with if you don’t bring your own!

Thanks for revisiting my email, I really enjoyed the way Susan could really bring out the meaning of my words onto the air.

Best regards from the North Star State,


John do you want to mention anything from No Lawyers – Only Guns and Money  you would like to talk about?


I have a couple and they are related. You know how the anti-gunners and their progressive kin believe in never letting a tragedy go to waste? They are now using the heroics of the Americans on that train in France as an example of how “you don’t need a gun to stop a bad guy.” They say that this validates some anti-gun research coming from Harvard’s David Hemenway. They conveniently forget to add that the train was a “gun free zone”.


The second was about a bulk email I got from Virginia Delegate Patrick Hope (D-Arlington) asking me to sign a Change.org petition for universal background checks. It was sent approximately 15 hours after the murders of the journalists. I pointed out the Hope seems to be the kind of guy who will surrender all principle if it gets him ahead. Hope is originally from Texas, attended a Christian high school, and then Catholic colleges for his undergraduate and graduate degrees. Despite this background, he is proudly proclaiming he won a major award from NARAL for protecting abortion funding. Pardon me if I am suffering from a little cognitive dissonance.


Gary – Rob is moving this week so he hasn’t had time to post anything on his SlowFacts blog. He is prolific though, now is a good time to get caught up. Also I have good news for Paul, Pmags for the Glock. Wrong, Gary there was a problem with the 9mm so .40 S&W is delayed.


We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is a big part of what you get to hear. look his blog up at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today.  co-hosts, will you be with us next time?  I’m looking forward to it.  Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rachel: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


Mention advertisers, Concealment Solutions, Crusader Weaponry and NJ2AS. Firearm Safety Institute


(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?


(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.


(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.


There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.


For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!


(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.


Episode 331: Alexander Roubian Of NJ2AS

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/331.mp3

Open and Personal News Segment: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/331_open.mp3

News Segment 1: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/331_news_1.mp3

News Segment 2: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/331_news_2.mp3

Interview Segment 1: Alexander Roubian of NJ2AS: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/331_Alexander.mp3

DGU Segment: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/331_DGU.mp3

Email and Show Close: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/331_email.mp3



“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast presented by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded Sunday, May 31 2015, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonights show we will talk with Alexander Roubian about the campaign to recall New Jersey Senator Steve Sweeney.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about Texas finally getting open carry.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our we have a rarity, a DGU in New Jersey! .. so climb aboard (???)

Rob: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 321 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Seg 1- Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob- I got to shoot my Mosin Nagant again.  I had to sight the rifle in after I put a taller front sight on it.  I am a three minute shooter so far. I’d like to shoot it again shooting outdoors with a larger target at a longer distance.  I also shot my friends Browning copy of a 1881 lever action in 45-70.  That 350 grain bullet makes the Mosin feel like a 22.  It is embarrassing that the Browning front sight was a tenth of an inch too short.


I read the news for Kenn Blanchard’s program Black Man with a Gun.  I was also on the Lock and Load Radio Show with Bill Frady.  Bill said he’ll come on our podcast.  So will Bob Mayne next month.


John, what have you been up to?




John – Not much to report this week. It has been mostly work since Memorial Day. I have been assembling the parts for my retro AR-15 A1. I just need the barrel to complete it. It will be a mixture of original surplus parts and some modern parts especially in the fire controls. My dad had shot Expert with the M-16 and I thought I’d like something similar to what he was issued.


Gary- Teaching, shot the Para again still working on FTF issues.


Paul – Getting ready for next weekend’s renaissance festival. meetings meetings meetings.


I am going to insert a live promo about upcoming training classes here.



Seg 2- News



-Judge  Frederick J. Scullin Junior said Washington, DC’s regulation of concealed carry was unconstitutional.  The judge enjoined the city from enforcing those laws.  Then judge Scullin denied DC’s request for a stay in his decision.  In layman’s terms, the judge said I mean it, and I mean it now.  The second amendment foundation has filed a motion seeking contempt charges against the city.


The city had a chance to appeal the judge’s original decision.  One reason the city might not have appealed is that DC did not want to lose in front of a federal appeals court, and the DC law was so egregious that the could well have lost even in front of a democrat appointed judicial panel.


-Oklahoma Governor Mary Fallin signed a knife preemption bill.  It passed the Oklahoma house by a vote of 81 to 4.   The governor signed a bill allowing automatic opening knives the previous week.  This means that common knives are legal across the state of Oklahoma.. and law enforcement can pursue violent criminals rather than chasing honest knife owners.


Licensed Open Carry Passes in Texas.

-The Texas senate and house passed separate open carry bills.  and then both chambers ignored open carry until the last days of this legislative session.  The Senate finally took up the house bill and passed licensed open carry.  It included a provision that open carry is not probable cause for arrest.  The concern was that texas police would arrest any black person carrying a gun.  That provision has been eliminated from the bill and both houses of the Texas legislature pass the bill on Friday. Gov. Greg Abbott tweeted, “Open Carry just passed in both the Texas House & Senate. Next destination: My Pen.


John – I know I have teased my fellow podcast Rachel Malone about how North Carolina is ahead of Texas on this. We have had unlicensed open carry since 1922. That said, I want to recognize all the hard work that she and other gun rights activists put in to make this law a reality. Congratulations to all 2A activists in TX who fought for this.


Campus Carry in Texas

A campus carry bill passed the Texas Senate by a 20-11 vote on Saturday. The bill will be taken up by the Texas House on Sunday afternoon. Gov. Abbott has said he will sign the bill when it arrives on his desk.

The bill as passed by the Senate would allow licensed carry holders carry in dorms, classrooms, and public buildings of public universities. A provision to add private universities was eliminated in a conference committee.

While schools will be able to designate their own “gun free zones”, it will be limited.

State Sen. Brian Birdwell, R-Granbury, said his legislation would allow for “very limited, reasonable prohibitions” on handguns in certain locations on university property.

He said his intent was that public college campuses would be as “permissive and accessible” as possible to handgun license holders and that universities would be as “specific and as minimalistic as possible” in defining restricted areas.

Break??? Yes



Concealed Carrier Has Pistol Seized and Disassembled and Placed in Trunk.
A Coral Gables, Florida policeman noticed a CCW License, freaked out, seized the pistol, disassembled it, and placed it in the trunk. And his chief see nothing wrong with it.


A man and his family were driving through Coral Gables when they were pulled over for exceeding the 15 MPH speed limit. The cop notice the CCW License when getting the Driver’s License. His reaction was completely without justification. He order the driver to freeze and the officer reached in and removed the pistol from the driver’s holster. The pistol was finally returned, disassembled, in the trunk. The driver is sure he was treated as a criminal. And his police chief feels the deputy did nothing wrong.


Marion Hammer, executive director of the Unified Sportsmen of Florida and past-president of the National Rifle Association, disagrees. “I believe this incident involves an illegal search — without provocation — of a law abiding citizen duly licensed to carry a concealed weapon,” Eric Friday, the general counsel for Florida Carry, Inc. also has issues with the constitutionality of the search. Friday was not surprised by the allegations.


Friday reiterated that no driver in Florida has a duty to tell police when they are armed. “Because of repeated instances such as you are describing to me, I no longer recommend that to people today,” Friday said. “I changed my position because of misconduct such as this. … I strongly believe it’s time for the legislature to create specific penalties that apply when the rights of concealed-carry licensees are abused, or this will continue unabated.”


It’s a sad state of affairs when the cops mistrust and fear their obvious ally.


Anti-Gun Professor Dismisses California Gun Violence Restraining Orders
We’ve met anti-gun UCLA Law professor Adam Winkler before: the blog Not One More Gun Law fisked his inane HuffPo article Ferguson: With So Many Guns in America, Police Are Trained to Live in Fear. He pushes the standard snake-oil of universal background checks and scary gun bans. So it was a little surprising when he dismissed the new California Gun Violence Restraining Orders as ineffective.


Last year, California instituted Gun Violence Restraining Orders allowing associates and law enforcement to immediately strip a citizen’s 2nd Amendment rights with nothing more than an allegation. Patterned after the much-abused Domestic Violence Restraining Orders, the GVROs are a clear threat to California citizen’s embattled rights. A bill to punish false allegations was soundly defeated in the legislature.

The National Journal found that GVROs would not have stopped recent mass shootings. In their report, Winkler is quoted, “The truth is that it is very rare to know in advance when someone is going to be dangerous with a firearm. This is not going to make a huge dent in our gun violence statistics.”  Seems like even this stopped clock is right for once.


Loretta Lynch’s DOJ Will Move Forward With a Dozen Anti-Gun Regulations

The Obama administration’s Department of Justice will move forward with a dozen new anti-gun regulations The Hill reported. These proposed rules are to be enacted in the waning years of Obama’s term.

According to The Hill, the new regulations range from restrictions on high-powered pistols to gun storage requirements. There will be a renewed effort to keep guns out of the hands of people who are mentally unstable or have been convicted of domestic abuse. There are rising concerns that the administration will try to disqualifying as many people as possible from gun ownership; people who may have had a problem at some time in their past, regardless of their current behaviour.


John Lott reports the media’s coming support of these efforts has been telegraphed by Columbia University’s weekend workshop for journalists. Fifteen of the panel’s seventeen “experts” were allegedly gun control advocates. Apparently, journalism that presents both sides of the story is long gone. Gun Safety is likely to be the media theme, a more palatable, disingenuous description of anti-gun efforts. The workshop promised a range of biased anti-rights talking points, ignoring much of the benefits and realities of an armed populace.

It’s been said many times before, but the remaining months of Obama’s reign are likely to be the most dangerous ever to the Constitution as a whole and the Right To Keep and Bear Arms specifically.


House Bill To Require Gun Owners To Carry Liability Insurance
One of Bloomberg’s Useful Idiots: NY Rep Carolyn Maloney has introduced a bill to require the nation’s gun owners to carry liability insurance. The Firearm Risk Protection Act, would require gun buyers to have liability insurance before being allowed to purchase a firearm, fining any owner $10,000 if found not to have it. Service members and law enforcement officers would be exempt from the requirement.
It should be obvious that requiring a citizen to purchase a service from a private entity before exercising a Protected Right strains the limits of the Constitution and common sense. Poor inner city residents most in need would be economically prevented from exercising their right to self-defense. This is far from Maloney’s first anti-gun initiative. Just last week we discussed her proposed bill requiring each gun purchase to be reported to the Attorney General.  Maloney and her puppet-master Bloomberg are clearly no friends of the Constitution.


John – I hate to add this but Maloney is a North Carolina native who went to New York City seeking fame, fortune, and gun control.


The New Nationwide Crime Wave: The Ferguson Effect

It’s been a rough ten months since the justifiable shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri. And It looks like it’s going to get worse. In a Wall Street Journal commentary, the impacts of the growing anti-police sentiments of the black activists, media and Progressive politician’s are examined. Called the Ferguson Effect, it documents the restrictions on the police and the resulting dramatic increase in crime.


As we in the gun-rights community well know, politicians typically respond to notorious crimes and events by punishing the law-abiding. The Ferguson Effect is much of the same. After a string of highly publicized black deaths by police, usually when the suspect has resisted arrest, there has been a slew of anti-police efforts. Police have been facing new rules, regulations and policies, DOJ consent decrees, community organizers and politicized civilian review boards, all under the highly biased microscope of the media.


The assault on policing has resulted in a destruction of police morale. The officers realize that any interaction with a suspect, no matter how warranted, may end up destroying their lives and family. Proactive policing, typified by the very effect “Broken Window” policies, is gone, and crime has jumped. Rates of murder, assaults, and burglaries, have increased dramatically, in some neighborhoods as much as 500%. The decades long decrease in crime appears to be ending.

Unfortunately, the immediate victims of the rising urban violence are the poor of the  inner city. Their ability to live safely and climb out of that morass will be threatened by the empowered criminals. But have no fear, the violence will not stay in the ghetto: everyone must be vigilant. Further compounding their errors, politicians will take advantage of the increasing crime rates to push for the usual ineffective gun restrictions.


Read the attached article in the show notes, it is well worth your time. And prepare and be aware. It’s an increasingly dangerous world out there.


Gun Quote  (who?)

How strangely will the tools of a tyrant pervert the plain meaning of words.  Samuel Adams.


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our interview segment.

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Segment 3 Interviews

Alexander Roubian from NJ2AS, http://www.recallsweeney.com/

Saturday, June 27, 2015 at 09:00 AM

Glassboro, NJ, exact location TBA


Segment 4 DGUs



Woman Injured Defending Her Home

A 51-year-old woman was shot defending the occupants of her home from three armed and masked attackers. The three attackers burst through the Townsend, Delaware home and demanded money. One of the occupants was roughed up by an invader. The woman shot at an armed intruder and suffered a shot to the leg in the exchange of gunfire. The invaders fled, it is not known if any was injured. She and the roughed-up young man are in the hospital with non-life threatening injuries.


Sometimes the cost of self-defense can be high – but worth it, especially when four lives are in the balance.


Intruder Shot By Woman

A Trenton, New Jersey woman was forced to defend her life with a gun. A jilted lover broke into her house and she shot him in the thigh. The lovesick and ventilated Jemoine Morris was picked up by police and taken to the hospital. He has been charged with criminal mischief. As of now, the woman has not been charged, but the New Jersey investigation is ongoing.


Cabby Fights Back

A Sebastian, Florida cab driver is alive and well after being held at knifepoint by two would-be robbers thanks to being armed. The two men had hailed the cab on early Saturday morning and then held a knife on the driver as they attempted to rob him. The cabby drew his handgun and shot one of the men. After the shooting, both men fled the scene. However, police were able to follow the blood trail and find them. The cabby identified the wounded man as the one who had held the knife on him. The wounded man was given medical assistance but died on his way to the hospital.


Wrong Movers

Two guys were helping a third guy move into his new Aurora, Colorado condo on Friday night. They were approached by three juveniles who attempted to rob the men at  gunpoint. As two of the men started to pull out their wallets, the third man pulled out his handgun and shot all three of the robbers. One juvenile died after being taken to the hospital, another is in serious condition, and a third was arrested on unrelated charges after he sought treatment for a shoulder wound at Aurora South Hospital. The movers were questioned by police and prosecutors and released without any charges.


Car Thief Held At Gunpoint

From listener John comes a tale of modern jurisprudence. Tye Wiegel was interrupted in the pursuit of his trade by a Willimantic, Connecticut resident.  Mr. Wiegel was attempting to steal the man’s car, parked in front of the man’s house. Wiegel declined to cease his attempts, so the resident went into his house, grabbed a handgun, and held the slow-on-the-uptake thief at gunpoint for the police.

Ol’ Tye is well known to the police and is said to be a heroin addict, no surprise there. Police stated that “This is not our first time dealing with him with car break-ins. He was just arrested not too long ago. He was also a suspect in a car break-in earlier today,” He has been charged with sixth-degree larceny, criminal attempt to commit the crime and second-degree breach of peace. For all that, he is held on only a $5,000 bond. Listeners are invited to speculate on how long this one man crime wave will remain behind bars.


Police said the homeowner was not hurt but cautioned other residents against confronting criminals.

Surviving a Home Invasion

Many of our DGUs involve home invasions. Unfortunately, home takeovers are becoming increasingly common as thieves become more brazen and violent.  With the home invasion, kidnapping, extortion, torture and murder of the Savopoulous family in Washington, DC, the Statfor Group has written an excellent article on Surviving a Home Invasion. The article is being offered free to non-subscribers. There is no way we could do this article justice trying to summarize it in a few words, so we urge every one of our listeners to follow the link in the show notes and read this potentially life-saving article.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



Segment 5 Show close


Listener e-mail discussion


Alan emailed this one in with the subject line “Holding a bad guy at gunpoint”




Let me start by thanking you for your podcast.  I listen to several different podcasts on a variety of topics, but I rank yours among the most anticipated each week.


From time to time someone mentions holding a bad guy at gunpoint until the police arrive. The question I have is how do you do that?  If I were the sort of person who makes a living divesting other people of their possessions, and I were to encounter an armed person not inclined to be a victim, I believe I would simply turn my back, raise my hands in the air and say in a loud clear voice “I’m going to walk away now, I’m not a threat to you.  If you shoot me you will be convicted of murder, if you try to stop me or even touch me you will be convicted of assault.  In either case you will also end up in civil court where me or my family will sue you for everything you and your family have or ever will have.  I’m leaving now, and you would be stupid to try to stop me.” In fact, based on recent news coverage, you could almost make the same speech to a Police Officer.


What do you think?


Alan Hammock

formerly of Houston, Texas

recently moved to Virginia.


PS, If you ever get tired of listening to podcasts, I suggest checking out librivox.org.  They have a catalog of hundreds, maybe thousands of books that have passed into the public domain, which are read by volunteers and available free of charge.  Jules Verne, Edger Rice Burrows, all the books you were supposed to read in high school literature class, books by authors you’ve never heard of, etc.  Most books date back to the early 1900’s or before. It is quite educational listening to hundred year old books and hearing the different attitudes and cultures of the past.  Its a wonderful resource for anyone who spends a lot of time in an activity which would benefit by the addition of mental stimulation.


Paul – Here is what I wrote back to Alan –


Hey Alan,


Thanks for writing in!  I just got home and have added your email to our show notes for Sunday’s show.


A few thoughts on your email, I will of course repeat these on the show.


#1 if they do stop what they are doing and slowly back away, you are correct that since they aren’t a threat that you could be convicted of murder if you do shoot. However there are a few circumstance where you are morally obligated to shoot a retreating felon EVEN if the threat has stopped. If you attend a MAG40 class this will be discussed. Let me just say that the chances are so remote to the extreme to be say while the chances are not 0 they are close.


#2 Holding someone at gunpoint is all about control and command.  Believe me that if I were to boost my voice out good and loud in the proper tone that I can make someone absolutely believe that if they twitch in the wrong way that I am able and prepared to shoot them.


#3 We need to differentiate the severity of what you are attempting to stop (or in the case of our conversation have just stopped). If they have just kicked down your door and have maybe stolen something… Let them go. If they have already killed, that is another story.


There really is no black and white here.


Finally on the point of police, you do seem to have a point with that considering all of the negative publicity in the mainstream media lately, however I really wouldn’t want to be the one to try it.  😉


Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Rob- https://slowfacts.wordpress.com/2015/05/28/more-lethal-help-from-the-federal-government/

There were 27 shootings in Baltimore over the Memorial day weekend. 19 people were robbed in New York City’s central park. Chicago had 12 people shot to death and an additional 47 shot and wounded over the same weekend.  Our oh-so-caring politicians had to show sympathy for this flood of blue-city blood.  Josh Earnest, the White House press secretary, called for more gun control.


I pointed out that the violence is the symptom, not a cause.  The cause is the failed policies of deep-blue cities like Baltimore,  Detroit, New York City and Chicago.  You can’t fix stupid with gun-control.


I also spoke to a friend of mine.  He is a local spark plug and gets things started and done.  He started one step at a time, so I wrote an article called The Painless Ladder of Self-Defense Activism.



John do you want to mention anything off of your blog No Lawyers, Only Guns and Money you would like to talk about?


I just want to mention a short post I did about the Brady Center lawyers on a case in Wisconsin. They have already had to withdraw from one case because they violated pre-trial publicity rules of the Wisconsin Bar. Now it looks like they will have to withdraw from another case in Milwaukee over the same issue. Their conduct is being alleged to be prejudicial to a fair jury. It looks like another misstep by the Bad Apple lawyers from the Brady Center.


This and other posts can be found at onlygunsandmoney DOT blogspot DOT com.


We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is a big part of what you get to hear.


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today.  co-hosts, will you be with us next time?  I’m looking forward to it.  Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rob: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


Mention advertisers, Concealment Solutions, Crusader Weaponry, NJ2AS and Graphics to Go, Inc. Firearm Safety Institute, Firearms Policy Coalition


(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?


(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.


(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.


There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.


For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!


(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.


Episode 278 – Miko Tempski

John: Welcome to the polite society podcast recorded live on Wednesday, October 22nd, 2014. I’m John Richardson.
Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonights show we interview Miko Tempski of the citizens committtee for the right to keep and bear arms.
Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone, and we’ll report on Operation Choke Point and another knife attack stopped by a gun owner.
John, of course we have our weekly stories of self-defense and defensive gun use.
Rob so climb aboard
Rachel strap in
John, and hang on! Episode 278 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant
John- Nothing really new since the weekend. I did order scope rings and a mount for my new-to-me (and perfectly legal in California) Marlin 336A rifle which I got at an auction on Saturday. I also bought a set of bullet molds for .30-30 for when I ever get around to bullet casting.

Rachel- I spent the weekend with an eager group of ladies at the Fredericksburg LadySeed – an Appleseed rifle marksmanship instructional event for women only.
how was the weather?
Also..what does it mean to “time out” in a shooting stage at the Zombie Run? Your score is a combination of total run time as well as your shooting time at each of 8 shooting stations. So, the range officer times you and records that time….but each stage has a time limit If you reach that, you have “timed out” and must move on.
Rob- Lots of dry practice.  Grip, presentation, and reloads.  Isometric grip exercises.  IDPA this weekend.  Reading a book on propaganda and the mainstream media. (Professor Brian Anse Patrick)  I have Brian Aitken’s book on the nightstand.

John- Break
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Seg 2- News

John -Thirty members of Congress demanded the Department of Justice launch an “immediate investigation” into the agency’s own Operation Choke Point.  Representatives wanted to know who was involved in creating and implementing the initiative against enterprises that are out of favor with the Obama administration. Led by Rep. Blaine Luetkemeyer, R-Mo., the 30 lawmakers sent a letter to Michael Horowitz, the Justice Department’s inspector general, and Robin Ashton, head of its Office of Professional Responsibility.  The Congressmen calling Choke Point a “blatant abuse of legal authority.” Six Republican Senators sent a letter to the Justice Department earlier this month demanding that Attorney General Eric Holder release information about Operation Choke Point.
rachel comment- and what will happen when the Obama administrations ignores them or writes a false report exonerating itself?

Rob-Jean-Pierre Robinet owns the Old Forge pub in Knoydart, a town of just 111 in Scotland.  This week he fought back tears as a court declared his .300 Blaser rifle and a shotgun that he had brought with him when he emigrated from Belgium were illegal and forfeit. Robinet had legally owned the guns in Belgium and had traveled with Belgioum and Scotland for 16 years. There every autumn in the thick forests around Knoydart, which can only be reached by boat or 18-mile overland hike, he would hunt for two weeks. These hunting trips led the Belgian restaurateur to buy the Old Forge nearly two years ago. However, since he is now a full-time UK resident, the guns are illegally owned and will now be disposed of.
Rachel comment- now don’t we all feel safer.
John comment- bigotry on display

Rachel -Certified firearms instructor Rick Ward knows last year’s big debate in the Mississippi legislature was about open carry. The new open carry laws prompted signs banning firearms on buildings across the state. Ward says the building owners are ignoring the Mississippi citizens who can legally carry a gun. “Cities and counties are imposing standards, laws or ordinances and resolutions that violate state law.  That’s where we have the problem.” Another bill passed this legislative session allowing citizens to file complaints and ask those locations to remove the signs. More than 30 have been filed since the law took effect. “In one way you say well maybe it’s arrogance, maybe it’s ignorance,” said Ward. “I don’t really know which is the case. You’ve got cities and counties that are not complying till they’re forced to do so.” Some places like the town of Florence are stilling trying to get questions answered. Their attorney requested an opinion from Attorney General Jim Hood last month. The topics are all about clarifying the application of gun laws. Traffic stops were also mentioned. That’s a point Ward is especially concerned about. “We’re not a threat to police officers just because we carry a gun,” he said.

John -A new law was passed in Pennsylvania that allows firearms owners to sue government agencies for their bigoted firearms laws.  Now some Democrats are upset they broke the law.. and have to pay for it.  Some of the anti-gun politicians thought they could ignore the Pennsylvania state pre-emption laws, and keep the civil rights protesters tied up in court forever.  After all, the politicians are spending someone else’s money for lawyers.  Not any more.  Now Pennsylvania politicians get to tell their story to the judge.. and pay up.
rachel comment- So now we get to find out if a law is a restriction on the right of self-defense.. or not!

Rob -Are you one in a million.. or one in a thousand?  A newly created database of New Yorkers deemed too mentally unstable to carry firearms has grown to roughly 34,500 names.  That recently released figure raised concerns among some mental health advocates.  The mental health professionals said too many people were being categorized as dangerous to themselves or others.  Civil rights activists worried that people who posed no threat at all would have their rights infringed. Mental health advocates also argued that the new laws unnecessarily stigmatized people with mental illnesses. Because the names in New York’s database and the circumstances of their cases are private, it is impossible to independently determine whether the people in the database are truly dangerous. Gun-rights opponents claim a wide net is appropriate because of the potentially dire consequences. Even if just one dangerous person had a gun taken away, “that’s a good thing,” said Brian Malte, senior national policy director of the Brady Campaign.  The N R A proposed a separate “process of adjudication” to make sure that “these decisions are not being made capriciously and maliciously.”

John comment- As usual, the New York legislature and the elite New York press ignore that guns save lives.  They will never count the disarmed victims who could have defended themselves if the state had allowed them to be armed.

Rachel -A jury of six men and six women acquitted a Norristown, Pennsylvania man Thursday of all charges related to a shooting last year.  A drunk man entered Culbreath’s Barbershop.  The drunk argued with mister Albert Dudley who works at the barbershop.  Dudley has a concealed carry license.. and was carrying at the time.  The drunk tried to take Mister Dudley’s gun.  In the struggle Dudley fired a round into the floor, and also through the arm of the intoxicated man.

Dudley was arrested and charged by Norristown police.  This week he was found innocent of two counts of aggravated assault, two counts of simple assault and one count of recklessly endangering another person.

Rob comment- a gun is not the ultimate weapon.  It is a tool among many options.  A bigoted prosecutor is dangerous to firearms owners.

John -Matthew Halleck brings his two girls to and from the outskirts of Harriet Bishop Elementary in Rochester, Minnesota every day. “I’m going to protect my children anyway I can,” said Halleck. For Matthew, that means having a concealed carry license and carrying where he can.  Recently, a sign went up in a front yard across the street from the school. It has Matthew’s picture on it and reads, “This man carries a loaded gun around your children every day. Since we don’t have a way to stop him, we felt it was important to notify the neighborhood and the parents that there is an armed man in their presence,” said Kimberly Edson, a Rochester resident who put the sign up.
Rachel comment- You are always an ambassador.  Sometimes a good one.  Sometimes a bad one.
Rob- I’d like to thank Mr Halleck

Rob -Edgewood High School Principal Russ Fussnecker may soon start his work day by strapping on a gun. His Butler County, Ohio school district near Cincinnati allows school administrators to carry a handgun while on school grounds. Fussnecker said he will get a concealed-carry gun license then take the required training from the Butler County Sheriff’s department.  They would give him a certificate to carry a handgun in a public school building.

The School Principal said, “If someone wants to come into a school building and create havoc and cause harm, it is hard to stop them (if we’re unarmed).  An armed principal “will make the school safer.” Butler County and its schools have been emphasizing building security.  School officials credit Sheriff Richard Jones, who has made national headlines since Sandy Hook with some of his safety proposals including using former police and military officers as armed substitute teachers.
comment- good for Principal Fussnecker.  It would be better if no one knew who was armed.

Rachel -In Episode 276, we reported on how the Everytown Moms for Illegal Mayors were using an armed robbery at a Kroger store to push their move to have legal open or concealed carry banned at the chain. It looks like they are at it again. In this case, the armed robber was dressed in a black hoodie, carried an umbrella, and had on a Halloween skeleton mask while demanding cash at gunpoint. They say, “These crimes at two Kroger stores in one week should serve as a wake up call to Kroger’s leadership to prohibit the open carry of firearms in its stores. Kroger customers should not be responsible for determining if someone in the store holding a gun is a criminal or making a political statement. “

We are including the surveillance photo issued by the Cincinnati Police in our show notes so that you can make the determination.

John Comment – If I were that teller, I’d already have pressed the silent alarm and readied the exploding dye packet of money. It is that obvious.
rob comment- Mandatory disarmament is a fantasy.  They want a no-guns sign as if that will work any better than the no robbery sign.
rachel comment- We will see if Kroger customers and management is smart enough to know the difference between a fantasy and reality.

john – The US Supreme Court has agreed to take a case tangentially involving firearms. It is actually more of a takings case. Former Border Patrol Agent Tony Henderson was convicted of distributing marijuana back in 2007 and sentenced to 6 months in prison. When he was arrested, he voluntarily gave his 19 firearms to the FBI. Henderson later asked to be able to sell the firearms as a felon cannot own firearms and a judge refused. The 11th Circuit Ct. of Appeals in Atlanta affirmed the ruling. The legal question is whether the federal prohibition on felons possessing firearms terminates all ownership rights. His attorney argues that leaving the ruling intact strips gun owners of their property rights for conviction upon an unrelated charge. The government argues that Henderson could have transferred or sold the guns prior to his conviction.
comment Rob- It isn’t clear if Henderson faced full due process.

Rob – There was a terror attack in Ottawa, Canada today at the War Memorial and the Canadian Parliament. Corporal Nathan Cirillo was on duty at the War Memorial and was killed in the attack. The attack was attributed to radicalized Canadian Muslim convert Michael Zehaf-Bibeau who was killed by police during his attack on Parliament. This didn’t stop supermodel Chrissy Teigen from using the event to criticize US gun laws.

Our sympathy to the family of Corporal Cirillo.  I noticed that the Parliament was protected by armed security.  They met violence with violence and saved the legislators.  As a counter example, Canadian citizens are asked to wait as disarmed victims until the police arrive.

Rachel – Missouri State Senator Jamilah Nasheed had a gun in her possession at the time she was arrested.  She was arrested as she protested outside the Ferguson Missouri Police Department. Senator Nasheed has a concealed carry license, and has an anti-gun voting record.  She sponsored several Missouri Bills including a Gun Owner Registry.  She also refused to take a breath analysis because the police thought she acted strangely, she was kneeling in the street and she “smelled strongly of intoxicants.”

Rob comment- You or I would be in jail.  She goes to trial next year.

John- Gun Quote “One bleeding-heart type asked me in a recent interview if I did not agree that ‘violence begets violence.’ I told him that it is my earnest endeavor to see that it does. I would like very much to ensure — and in some cases I have — that any man who offers violence to his fellow citizen begets a whole lot more in return than he can enjoy.” – Jeff Cooper

John- Hang on everybody, we’ll be back after this

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Segment 3 Interviews
What will Washington initiative 591 do?  Why was 591 necessary?

It’s designed to prevent gun confiscation like we saw after Katrina – without due process. It also prevents state agencies from promoting background checks that are stricter than a national standard. (See full text)

An initiative is just as a law passed by the legislature, but with greater protections (it can’t be changed immediately).

What happens if 591 and 594 both pass?
It’s unclear what happens when two competing initiatives pass, covering the same topic. Possibly, the conflicting portions would simply be cancelled out; possibly, the courts would consider which initiative received more votes.

Why have two competing initiatives, instead of simply opposing 594?
difficulties in educating voters on what’s in 594
additional protections are afforded by 591
Do law enforcement support 591?
Yes. Most do.
Why is initiative 594 particularly dangerous?

It criminalizes non-violent behavior, including normal firearms safety classes. It shuts down the gun culture in Washington State by making it very difficult to take friends shooting or to go hunting with your family. Also, because it’s an initiative, the legislature would not be able to change anything about it for at least two years.

Where can we donate to 591?   CCRKBA or WA gunrights.org

Segment 4 DGUs
Rob – In our last two episodes, we’ve featured DGUs in which someone with a knife is stopped by an armed citizen. In this case, a Flint, Michigan robber brandished a knife and demanded money last Thursday around 7pm. The victim responded by pulling his legally carried firearm while calling 9-1-1. The victim held the robber until police arrived and arrested the robber.

Rachel –The residents of a Bellevue, Nebraska apartment started keeping a shotgun near the front door after a previous break-in. It came in handy after Tyrell Dalia, 21, broke into the home Saturday night armed with a handgun. One of the occupants responded to Dalia’s threats with armed force. Dalia, who was out on bail while awaiting trial on felony charges, was killed.

Rob Comment – Wait, I thought people under indictment for a felony weren’t supposed to have firearms.

John –A home invasion in Sarasota County, Florida turned deadly early Tuesday morning. Fortunately, it was deadly for the home invader and not the residents. When home owner Chris Bane heard the glass break at 5:40 am, he armed himself. Going out into the hallway, he came face to face with Calvin Yoder. After Yoder fired a shot at him, Mr. Bane returned fire killing Yoder. A spokeswoman for the Sarasota County Sheriff’s Dept says no charges will be brought against Mr. Bane as he was defending himself and his 11 year old son. Yoder had been arrested several times and had served time in prison.

Rob – A store clerk in Albuquerque, New Mexico gave the armed robbers $100 and his watch. The Pajarito Corner Store had been the target of armed robberies in the past. When the clerk went to lock the door of the store after they left, one of them turned around and pointed a firearm at him from their Mercedes. That is when he shot and killed one of the robbers. Christopher Garza, 20, was pronounced dead at UNM Hospital. Police say the shooting was justified. His accomplice, Reuben Lucero, also 20, is now being charged with felony murder in his death.

John- We have the links to each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com if you want to share them with a friend.

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Segment 5 Show close

(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

John- Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

I wrote about our California gun laws.  Mental health evaluations don’t work to protect us.

(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.

(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

For our Canadian listeners, and their supporters, join the Canadian Shooting Sports Association and the Canadian National Firearms Association.  If YOUR state or local organization isn’t read each episode, then send us an email and we’ll add them!

John: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast. I’d like to thank our guest Miko Tempski for joining us today. Our go fund me page needs some love. We’re raising money to bring you streaming video from next years Gun Rights Policy Conference in Phoenix, Arizona. Rachel and Rob, will you be with us for the weekend show? I’m looking forward to it. So until next time…
Rob: stay safe,
Rachel: Y’all please be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.