Episode 425 – Kathy Jackson

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/Episode20425.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment 1

3- Interview Segment 1: Kathy Jackson Interview Part 1

4- Interview Segment 2: Kathy Jackson Interview Part 2

5- DGU Segment:

6- Email and Show Close:

Special RANT


1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Thursday, October 12th, 2017, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk about a recent immigrant who turned in his guns.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about how being a pro-second amendment organization shouldn’t surrender our guns either.

Tracy: I’m Tracy Thronburg, and tonight Belle and I will talk about the superiority of 1911s versus non-1911s.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGU’s we talk about 4 legged threats .. so climb aboard

Belle: strap in

Amy : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 425 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

1911 vs?  This might convince me.


Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob- Bill Frady and I talked about Self-Defense Gun Stories.  That was on his Lock and Load Radio program.  Paul Carlson, Dustin Salomon and I talked about Dustin’s books, Building Shooters and Mentoring Shooters. That conversation comes out on Paul’s podcast- Safety Solutions. There are big changes in store for the training industry. I talked with Bill Chachkes on his Firearms Chat podcast and we talked about politics and instruction. Jeff Street and I recorded another Episode of Self-Defense Gun Stories. The Texas concealed handgun association re-published one of my articles.  Hi, Mollie.


John- I worked the Grass Roots North Carolina booth at the Asheville Gun Show this past weekend. Post-Las Vegas, it looked like attendance was up slightly. Paul Valone, president of GRNC and a speaker at GRPC, was there as well. We did get a few new members signed up. As the previous gun show coordinator wanted to step aside, I volunteered to be the GRNC co-coordinator for the Asheville Gun Show.

Paul – We should have Paul Valone on again!



Amy-Just catching up after a week on the road. While at GRPC, I was on Riding Shotgun with Charlie (Charlie Cook’s YouTube channel/podcast) and we visited the spot JFK was shot. It was neat to see!After GRPC, I spent some time visiting family in Texas and spent a few days in Atlanta, GA setting up classes with a few ranges there. I’m also currently working on getting ready to launch 3-Gun Nation’s Training program.


Tracy- I just got back from Indiana, where I shot the MAG-80 class this past week. There were 17 of us in class, and I’m proud to report that I tied Mas at his own game, shooting a 300/300 on the MAG double-speed qualification, earning a signed $1 bill from the man, the myth, and the legend. This was my second time this year to earn a signed $1 from Massad Ayoob. We did lots of handgun retention and disarming in this class, which got me out of my comfort zone. I’m really looking forward to the MAG-120 this December in Live Oak, Florida, where we’ll shoot a MAG qualification at triple speed!


Belle-Helped with Level 4 Advanced Def HG, did the role player bit, one of my fave parts of training, we had 7 students pass our HG Master Test, the most I have seen in a class. Took a much needed weekend off and went hiking with the family. Took the first registrations for the PSP ASIC for next July!




John – Just a reminder that PSP patches are still available. They are $10 each or 2 for $18. For PayPal, use john@politesocietypodcast.com. If you want to send a check, use that same email address.


Promo about upcoming training classes here.


2- News 1


A tool for the media surrenders

The gun control debate is influenced by the media with fear stories. Directly after a mass shooting at the Route 91 Harvest Festival in Nevada, stories flourished. “I think the easiest way to stop mass shootings from happening in America is to take guns away from civilians,” Pring told Fox. Jonathan Pring from London, England, is now a resident in Phoenix, running a coffee shop and driving a doubledecker bus. Despite his British roots, Pring had bought guns, but surrendered them after hearing about the 59 deceased. He turned his guns into the Phoenix Police and publicly urged others to surrender their weapons.

The original article about Pring is no longer accessible on FOX. Instead of going directly to the urgent news story, we are led in circles to access it. Other news sites include the same stories. However, positive comments turned into negative comments. Pring received death threats after doing the ‘did the right thing’. He deleted his facebook post and left town with his family.


John – I’m sorry he got death threats. However, Mr. Pring was too used to being a subject and doesn’t realize what it means to be a citizen.


Belle- it sounds like a publicity stunt to me, but better he let them go, anyone who doesn’t want them shouldn’t have them.

Amy-publicity stunt

Rob- I’ll taking your donations and I’ll find your unwanted guns a good home.

John – Under AZ law, those guns must be sold at auction.


Paul – .380 and .22LR


Second Amendment Advocates Waves White Flag.

Life long supporters of the second amendment have surrendered their opinions and semi-auto weapons to give up on citizens rights. Caleb Keeter, the guitarist in the Josh Abbott band, changed his mind because he witnessed first hand the festival mass shooting. Keeter tweeted: ‘We couldn’t touch [the shooter] for fear the police might think we were part of the massacre and shoot us […] We need gun control RIGHT. NOW’. After Keeter turned 180 degrees, so did Ashton Kutcher, star of That 70s Show. The self-proclaimed ‘lifelong gun owner’ had once tweeted a photo of Demi Moore, his then wife, firing an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle. His recent article in A Plus, admits he thinks keeping guns on this course will not change anything for the better. He wants changes for gun control.

The Tragedy in Vegas isn’t the first time that supporters have changed their minds. The Las Vegas shooting isn’t the first time that prominent second-amendment supporters have changed their minds. In 2015, the racially motivated mass-shooting in Charleston changed the mind of a conservative evangelical pastor from New Jersey. Rob Schenck,announced ‘The gun is almost an invitation to give into fear, and fear should not be a controlling element in the life of a Christian’. In 2012, Iraq veteran Liam Madden wrote an op-ed in Salon. He explained how the shootings in Newtown’s elementary school had completely shaken his worldview.


Amy- People forget the reason the Second Amendment exists. It’s not only about a permit holder/gun owner being able to stop crime.

Rob- I did the math.  Turning in your guns might save a life, and it will cost 21.  You are 21 times more likely to be killed by your government than by a criminal or mass murderer.  Your children are over 5000 times more likely to be killed by their government than by a firearms accident.


Bank Treats Hero Like Robber

Authorities arrested suspected robber Nelson Jones, but continue to ask for help from the public. Malcolm Jones remains at large and might have been injured during the crime. Both men have been indicted on federal charges for illegal use of a firearm during a crime of violence. The prosecutor’s office paid $2,500 to Crime Stoppers for a reward for information. The two suspects were stopped by off duty police officer Carl Rauschenberger.

Carl worked with the Mount St. Joseph Police Department for 15 years. He has 10 years of experience with the Greenhills Police Department. His employee record includes working for the Cincinnati Police Department for 28 years. However, his bravery, valor, and swift decision to protect innocent lives in a bank was not good enough for the bank. They asked him to bank elsewhere.


Gun Quotes- A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition. Rudyard Kipling


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our guest (Name).



3- Illegal immigration-


Amy – I agree with Paul that Criminals need to be deported, If an immigrant is only here to bring crime to our country, and not adding value, they are not making a contribution to this country. I feel strongly about this because I come from a family of immigrants. My family is from the Philippines. In World War 2, my Grandfather joined the United States Navy (guerilla Filipinos fighting Japan my family

Rob- Amy, your family are a legal immigrant. There is a difference between a legal and illegal immigrant. You can’t profit by doing something illegal, so the money paid to illegals is not deductible on taxes.

John – There is a way to get workers for field work. During WWII, the US had a guest worker program. As to immigration policy, we should look North to Canada. They give preference to those with special skills or those who are willing to invest substantial money in the Canadian economy to create jobs.

Paul – Illegal immigrants DO NOT PAY Federal taxes

4- Interview 2


Kathy Jackson Holster Safety


Belle- Why do you think there is an aversion to the more traditionally “safe” holsters? What do you think has pulled folks away from the tried and true- Hard sided, leather or kydex, strongside hip, in or outside the waistband? And why are so many women or men(to a lesser degree) who say they want to CC so unwilling to modify their wardrobe? Isn’t that just a necessary sacrifice?


Amy – This is an interesting topic. Over the last few years, there has been an explosion of holsters marketed for women. What do you think of the the “ace bandage” type you were referring to now offering a “trigger guard” insert? They started doing that after receiving that same feedback you were mentioning.


Belle- aren’t all these alternate positions more suited for BUG rather than primary firearms?


5- DGUs  (at beginning) Welcome back to the DGU segment of the Polite Society Podcast powered by the firearms policy coalition. These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.


Cougar picked wrong RV park

John – Last week Casey’s Riverside RV park in Oregon had a cougar prowling the neighborhood.  The 100 pound male mountain lion was full grown but thin. It was searching the neighborhood for the feral cats.  He came around every other night in his quest for a meal.

Part of the park was mobile homes and it ventured into the backyard of the wrong home.  The man who shot the cougar has parents who live there and when it came into their backyard, he shot at it.  He fired 2 shots and one hit the big cat.  It ran down into the trees and they tracked it to where it laid dead.

The man called the Oregon State Police.  The wildlife trooper who responded did not issue any citations and took the carcass.

The Department of Fish and Wildlife spokeswoman said the shooting was allowed under state law.  “The person who took the cougar was legal to do so under statutes that allow killing of cougars causing damage or public safety issues,” said Michelle Dennehy.

Belle-where did other round go?


The hazards of working at convenience stores

Amy – Jennifer Wertz didn’t feel safe working at the Circle K in Albuquerque.  There has been a recent rash of robberies in the area including recently at a nearby 7-11.

Wertz was at work at the gas station when she heard about the 7-11 robbery and retrieved her gun from her car.  She got nervous when a customer from the 7-11 came in and told her about the robbery.  The recent rash of robberies had been going on and the Circle K had done nothing to protect her.

She was visibly displaying her gun on her hip and when an armed robber came into the station a short time after getting her gun and the decision to do so paid off.

“He was screaming, he point the gun in my face,” she said, “and I just point, cock and shoot, and protect myself.”

The 23-year-old robber ran out of the gas station and collapsed in the parking lot with critical injuries.

For Wertz, the decision to defend herself had consequences.  It was a violation of company policy so she was suspended for two weeks.  She quit her job and went looking for employment elsewhere.

When news of her DGU and the company’s reaction to it hit the news, a GoFundMe page was set up and raised over $70,000 for her.  {I thought I had heard another store had offered her a job but I might be getting DGU’s mixed up – Dana}

Rob- I’d like to see the Circle K held liable for injuries to their disarmed clerks.  The employees are insured, so ey also assume a similar liability.

Tracy – no one is making the person take the job, knowing that it is a dangerous job with a higher likelihood of getting robbed.

Amy – Is it the company’s responsibility to keep their employees safe? By not allowing them to carry, they are not giving the employees a way to defend themselves from a situation that, unfortunately, does happen in convenience stores (armed robberies).


Wrong Old Guy- Belle

We have said it before, don’t mess with the old man.  Recently in Florida, a 81-year-old homeowner was lying in bed when he heard someone knocking on the door and ringing the doorbell.  He looked out the window and did not recognize the man so he did not open his door.

The man put on a pair of gloves and went to the back of the house.

The homeowner grabbed his .22 caliber pistol when he heard a windows break and then saw the man clearing the shattered glass away.

He said he feared for his wife’s and his safety so he fired three or four shots and the would be intruder.  The man then fled to his pick up and the homeowner fired several more shots as the truck sped away.

Although it is not known if he hit the intruder, it is possible that he was either grazed or shot.  “One time I heard him say, ‘Oh,’” the victim told the 911 operator.

The criminal was still being sought.

Paul –

Belle – Lets use a reasonable defensive cal.

Tracy – any gun is better than no gun!

Amy- Don’t try robbing the Security guy

A man was “conducting security” at the Grand Strand Baptist Church in Myrtle Beach when a man approached him and asked for change for a $20.  The intended victim pulled out his wallet to offer change when the man pulled a gun and while pointing it at the victim’s stomach, demanded the wallet.  The victim handed over his money and as the robber began to walk away, he pulled his own weapon.

The robber then fired a shot at the car door.  The victim then shot back and as the robber tried to continue the fight his gun jammed.

The victim “emptied his weapon” according to the police report.  The report did not state how many times he was hit.  After being shot, he ran to the parking lot of a nearby Ruby Tuesday and told a witness that he had been shot and needed to go to the hospital.

He then collapsed .  When police arrived at the scene, a witness flagged them down and pointed the officer to a gun on the side of the road.  Another woman then pointed the officer to where the robber was lying on the ground where he had collapsed.  A third witness to the shooting, also an off-duty EMT, was helping the suspect until on-duty EMT’s arrived.

Rob- Criminals interview their victims.  “Hey, may, do you have the time, have change, have directions.”
The answer is no, go away.  The exception is if you’re working security.


Tracy – Break the OODA loop. we don’t shoot when the threat is gone.


Belle- Dont let strangers in your bubble! There is no reason in our culture for people you don’t know to get in your personal space. If you’re keeping your bubble intact, about half the time, you have a bit more time to decide and act.You can be polite, or not, from a comfortable distance.

The sad truth is, churches are another one of those places that violence happens and we know that. That should encourage a change in behavior.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close


Listener e-mail discussion

Text message #1


Al the Iron Range trucker here. Not to stir the pot (sarcasm font here) my wife carries a Sig 238. Yes 1911 in a 380! Hated the shield. I goofed on the gross weight of the truck last text. It is 830,000 pounds.


Tracy – any gun is better than no gun, but not my choice of caliber, nor my choice of handgun.


Belle-the 938 is not bad for people with limited hand strength, slide moves like butter.


Text message #2


I love listening to your show, you have a lot of great content. I don’t mean to complain but whoever keeps their microphone up their nose is very distracting with the sniffing and breathing. It drowns out some of your interviews and distracts from what others are saying. I’ve skipped a few shows because I couldn’t keep listening to it. Thanks for listening to my rant, Mike.


Email from Mark in Chicago


Dear Ladies and Gentlemen:

I am a very new shooter. Let me thank you for all the work you put into the podcast — it has been a very useful resource for a newcomer.

In my short acquaintance with the gun culture, I have found that instructors and experienced shooters recite the litany of gun safety rules frequently. And sometimes they talk about negligent discharges that occur when the rules are broken. But when they do, it is almost always about some *other* fool’s accident. That’s why I thought this post by Dr James Williams on his excellent Tactical Anatomy blog was so gutsy:


In this post Dr Williams, a very experienced shooter indeed, talks about the three negligent discharges that he himself has popped off in his long life as a shooting enthusiast, and what he learned from them.

I wonder if any of the hosts have caused ADs during their lives as shooters, and would be willing to discuss them on air for the good purpose of scaring newbies like me straight.

Keep up the good work.



Tracy – Ive taken Dr. Williams’ shooting with x-ray vision class. If you have the opportunity to train with him, seize the opportunity.


Rob- I was practicing for competition and put one off the target and into the berm.  One went over went over the berm.


Gary –


Paul – I have NEVER admitted this, but I did have a round go off that I didn’t intend to fire


Amy – Fortunately, I have never had an AD, but I know people that have. I credit the military with drilling weapons safety into my mind, In the Marines, we literally carried unloaded rifles with us everywhere and were constantly trigger finger checking and checking muzzle awareness , but I am not saying military personnel have never had any AD’s happen. It’s important to talk about these things so we don’t get complacent regarding the rules of firearm safety.


John – I, like Amy, have been fortunate not to have an AD. I think it was luck more than anything else.

Belle- Like Paul, if we are being honest here, the only ND i have had was the split second earlier than expected slip into the sad part of the target. I agree with John tho, that it is just luck.


Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Rob- I posted 9 articles since our last episode. One is called, Why Republicans Ignore the Gun Vote. Money and political factionalism have marginalized gun owners. The Republican leadership would rather oppose President Trump than support the grassroots. Most politicians are in it for the money, and the Republican leadership certainly is. My articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.  John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money


John – In the post-Las Vegas shooting days, the gun banners have gone into hyper-drive. I have many posts up about their plans to ban bump fire stocks. For our purposes, it is important to remember that the devil is in the details. The way these bills are written, upgrading your trigger or changing the buffer weight in your AR could be construed to allow a semi-auto rifle to increase its rate of fire. So, for example, if Amy has anything but a gritty mil-spec trigger on her 3Gun rifle, it could be illegal for her to even possess that trigger. The House bill doesn’t even mention bump fire stocks but just says any part that is meant to increase the rate of fire. The sad thing is that you have co-sponsors of the bill who should be our friends – A rated and endorsed by the NRA. All of this means we have to get off our butts and start calling, faxing, emailing, and writing our congressional critters. Now.


Amy – Yes! The devil is in the details!

I have not written anything new but will be ready to announce my blog on website www.ccwstyle.com by next episode. Currently, in the middle of a lot of changes there.


That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.




Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank (Guests) for joining us today.  So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Jae, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)


Amy: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Tracy: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?


(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.