Episode 419 Karl Rehn, Gail Pepin and Tim Crosnoe

Full Episode Download:http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/Episode2041920Final.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment 1

3- Interview Segment 1: Karl Rehn Pt 1 

4- Interview Segment 2: Karl Rehn Pt 2

5- Mantis X review

6- Tim Crosnoe interview

7- DGU Segment:

8- Email and Show Close:

1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast powered by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Tuesday, August 22nd, 2017 I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we will talk with Karl Rhen about Historic firearms training.

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk about the Arizona Supreme Court upholding state pre-emption

Paul: we’ll also talk with Gail Pepin about the Mantis X Training system, so climb aboard

Rob: strap in

John: and hang on!

Paul: episode 419 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob- Carried every day.  Recorded Amanda Suffecool for “Self-Defense Gun Stories.”  What Amanda is doing with concealed carry fashion shows is amazing.


John- Thanks to a reminder by Erin Palette of Operation Blazing Sword, I signed up for Massad Ayoob’s MAG-20 class to be held in a suburb of Charlotte (North Carolina). I’ve wanted to take the MAG-40 for a long while but either the time or the distance wasn’t convenient. This gets me halfway there and it’s only a little more than 2 hours away.




Promo about upcoming training classes here.


2- News 1


Paul – Government tension in Arizona

It is not unusual for state governments to pass preemption laws.  However, many city leaders believe they know best.  They pass measures knowing that their local regulations conflict with state statutes.  


The most recent example of this overreach is found in Tucson, Arizona.  A recent, unanimous ruling by the Arizona Supreme Court struck down a 2005 ordinance requiring local police to destroy seized firearms.  The problem is an earlier Arizona statute that prohibits local governments from enacting measures related to firearms or ammunition.  Additionally, Arizona passed another law requiring cities to sell seized or otherwise acquired firearms to licensed dealers.  


Tucson argued that its charter status provided significantly more independence.  The Arizona Supreme Court disagreed.  As police power is granted by the state, the city must abide by state mandates.  The court clarified that charter status only applies to only city elections and disposal of real property.


The issue was brought to a head by SB 1487.  This law provides that legislators may point out instances of cities ignoring preemption laws to the Attorney General.  If the Attorney General finds this to be the case, he or she may withhold up to half of the city’s state funding.  Tucson argued that this amounted to illegal coercion.  Justice John Pelander, however, stated the intent of SB 1487 is to, “require and incentivise political subdivisions to comply with state law.”  This is a positive step in the right direction.  It gives teeth to preemption laws that cannot be ignored by power hungry local officials.


Rob- Tucson destroyed hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of firearms.  That is enough money to buy all the Tucson cops body armor..but the city says they don’t have enough money for that.  They the municipal government does have enough of the taxpayer’s money to fund years of legal challenges claiming they are above the law.


John- It is interesting to compare this decision with the recent one that didn’t uphold pre-emption by the Washington State Supreme Ct. In this case the AZ justices read the law and applied it. In Washington State, the majority justices had to virtually invent exceptions to that state’s very strong firearms pre-emption law.


Rob- Politicians in a black dress.


John- Under Dillon’s Rule, counties and cities are creatures of the state. They only have the power clearly granted to them by the state. This is a long-standing legal principle.


Paul –

Rob- The law requires deliberate misconduct.  


John – Gun Quotes- A businessman cannot force you to buy his product; if he makes a mistake, he suffers the consequences.. A bureaucrat forces you to obey his decisions, whether you agree with him or not.  If he makes a mistake, you suffer the consequences; if he fails, he passes the loss on to you.  Ayn Rand


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with Karl Rhen.



3- Interview 1- Karl Rhen Pt 1


4- Interview 2 – Karl Rhen Pt 2


5- Mantis X


Rob- 6- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended as information, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.

Rob- Judge returns fire

It was just another Monday morning when Judge Joseph Bruzzese, Jr. parked his car in his reserved spot next to the Jefferson County courthouse in Steubenville, OH yesterday. Within a couple of minutes things would change.

As Judge Bruzzese walked toward the stairs leading up to the courthouse shortly before 8 AM, he was “ambushed” by Nathaniel Richmond.  According to Sheriff Abdalla, video footage showed a vehicle with 2 occupants at 7:12 AM which then left and returned at 7:30.

Richmond approached the judge and shot him at near-point blank range in the chest then took off running toward the vehicle.  Judge Bruzzese was armed and both he and a probation officer returned fire.  Video showed the judge taking 5 shots at Richmond.  Richmond was shot and killed by one of the two.

The sheriff said had the probation officer not been there, “this “gentleman” would have kept on shooting until he killed the judge.”

Although Richmond had never appeared in Judge Bruzzese court, he has had been involved in a number of cases in the last several years.  He had filed a lawsuit in the judge’s court in April, alleging wrongful death in the death of his mother in a house fire in 2015.  The hearing was scheduled for the end of August.

Richmond was the father of Ma’lik Richmond who served 10 months in juvenile detention after a conviction, along with another high school football player, for the rape of a 16 year-old girl in 2012.  Richmond was a star on the football team and the case got international attention amid allegations of a cover-up to protect the football team.  Ma’lik had no contact with the judge in his case.

Judge Bruzzese was alert and talking after the shooting and was airlifted to the hospital in nearby Pittsburgh and is expected to survive.  Judge Bruzzese has served on the court since 1997 and had been elected to the most recent 6 year term in 2014.  He had started carrying a gun years ago because there’s “nutcases out there who want retaliation.”

Paul- I can’t talk about Ohio, but many states treat judges as above the law.  They can get permits in states where the rest of us would have to go unarmed.  I looked at the 25 most dangerous occupations, and “Judge” didn’t make the list.


John – NC treats judges and DAs as above the law in terms where you can carry. Beyond that, I see this as a case showing how it is important to stay in the fight even if you wounded. It could save your life.


Rob- Some Ohio judges granted themselves authority to carry in their courtroom and everywhere else in public WITHOUT having to obtain an Ohio carry permit.  It must be nice to be king..or at least a judge.


Paul – 3 shots connected with at least 6 fired. More training please


John – Self-defense against crossdressers

In Lithonia, Georgia recently, a man dressed as a woman broke into a local home just after 2 AM.  The homeowner confronted the subject and gave him a verbal warning.  The burglar continued to approach him and he fired one shot.  He did the right thing in the opinion of neighbors because he has a wife, daughters and mother in the home.  The burglar died at the scene.  The homeowner is not being charged as the police have determined this was a self-defense shooting.

Paul – Do you think alcohol or drugs might have been involved here?

Paul – Might have been better if you POGO

A Kansas City MO man and woman had just returned home at 5 AM from a visit to WalMart after working the night shift.  They had put the groceries in the apartment and he was walking her to her car when a man dressed all in black came around the corner.  He was demanding them to give me things and threatening him with a gun.  The male victim emptied his pockets.

He then started moving them into the apartment.  At this point the male victim decided to grab his gun which was just inside his door and fight back.

“I walked out, he was still holding the gun and I thought he was going to shoot me that minute, and I just took a couple shots and he ran off,” the victim told police. Unsure if he had hit the man, he and his girlfriend retreated into his apartment and called 911.

Responding police found the man dead.

Rob- I have to call this man foolish.  He didn’t have a gun with him.  Once he faced a lethal threat, he did not make the decision to use lethal force, but waited until he had his gun pointed at the criminal to decide to shoot.  That is an important distinction.  You can choose to NOT SHOOT at any time, but I want you to make the choice to save your life when you see an immediate and unavoidable lethal threat.

John – Bob Mayne, Ben Branam, and Paul Carlson had a great discussion on visualization in a recent Handgun World Podcast.


Rob- Training with realistic targets can help you shoot when you need to.

Cellular 911 Call

A Verizon Wireless store employee practiced POGO and it probably saved his life.  2 men attempted to rob the cellular store in the late morning recently.  While being held at gun point, the clerk pulled his firearm from his waist band and fired several shots at the thug brandishing his gun at him.

The wounded suspect was “awake and breathing” and the clerk had “both guns in his hands” as 911 audio revealed.

The clerk does have his government issued permission slip to carry his gun concealed.

The suspect had fired his gun but it was not determined who shot first.

The suspect was transported to a local hospital gunshot wounds.  He and his comrade had been in the store several times recently.  The other robber fled the scene in a light blue van.

John – I wonder if he will keep his job.


Paul – I don’t know if it’s a great idea to handle the gun, but you have to make it safe.


We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



7- E-mail, blog notes, and show close


Voice mail


Email #1, this one from Phil


I enjoy your podcast and… really wish you’d give more information about each episode in the written introduction. I don’t know who the guests are, so please describe what they talk about, so I can decide if that episode is what I want to hear. (“We need/want more listener feedback” is too often the only thing you post.)


Thanks for hearing me!


Email #2


I just listened to your podcast of a week ago and I heard Paul mention Dirty Harry’s 16 shot revolver.  If I may…a correction.  The Dirty Harry movies are better than most when it comes to the realistic portrayal of guns.  You see, I have this annoying habit of counting shots in the movies, especially when it comes to revolvers.  If they go overboard I’ve know to express my displeasure, especially to my wife. That’s when she usually gives me a look and I shut up.  Anyway, Harry usually shoots 4 or 5 times before the end of that “scene”.  Never more than 6 that I can recall.  Exception… in the second movie (Magnum Force) during the police shooting competition, Harry shoots 6, then is clearly seen using his speed loader, then 6 more before he yells “out”.  Anyway, the point to this silly email is to point out that the Dirty Harry movies are the rare example of Hollywood getting it “pretty close” to right.


Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Rob-  I looked at the costs to get your concealed carry permit in “shall issue” states.  We paid over 4 billion dollars and spent over 65 million hours in classes to get our permits.  As you should imagine, that much time and money talks, and the state mandates disarmed 11 million of us.  We would at least double the number of people legally carrying if constitutional carry were the law of the land.  That and more are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland, and at my blog, slow facts dot wordpress dot com.


John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money


Our listeners may remember Cody Wilson. Among other things, he developed the Liberator pistol which can be made using a 3-D printer. We interviewed him at the 2016 GRPC. Cody now has a company selling 80% AR lowers and mini-CNC machines that allows you to complete that lower. This past week his Internet provider, Cloudfare, cancelled his GhostGunner.net account. While Cloudfare preaches “free speech”, they closed his website over content. This is the same thing that they did to the white supremacist site Daily Stormer. It leads to the question as to whether social media companies are deciding to purge or restrict libertarian or conservative oriented websites because of their “values”.


That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Karl Rhen and Gail Pepin for joining us today.  So for Amy, Tracy, Belle, Jae, Dana, Douglas, Gary, John, Rachel, Susan, Craig, and Rob,

(Paul, stop talking now)


Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rachel: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.


(after show close) How could we have made this episode better?


(DO NOT READ)Look at the shooters club by Bob Mayne and Ben Branam.  For $75.00 a year, $6.25 a month, you get 24/7 access to some fantastic training and audio podcasts that you can’t get anywhere else.  Subscribing from the link in our show notes helps Bob and Ben as well as helps us here at the Polite Society Podcast.