Episode 393 – Election Fall-Out

Full Episode Download: http://traffic.libsyn.com/politicsandguns/393.mp3

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment 1

3- News Segment 2

4- Interview Segment: Guest Bob Mayne

5- Gun Review

6- DGU’s:

7- Email and Show Close

1- Introduction

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast sponsored by the Firearms Policy Coalition and a proud founding show on the Self Defense Radio Network. We are recording this show on Tuesday November 15th 2016  I’m Paul Lathrop.

Rob: I’m Rob Morse, and we can’t stop talking about the election results.

Matt: I’m Matt Martin and we’ll talk about competition shooting.

Charlotte: I’m Charlotte Foxtrot tonight we’ll give a review of the Ruger LC9s

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our DGU’s we talk about a concealed carrier that saved a cop’s life .. so climb aboard

Rob: strap in

Matt : and hang on!

Paul:  Episode 393 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.

Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)

Rob- Carried every day.  I carried, and my wife took her CCW class.


Charlotte- Exploring a new way to carry

Matt – Working up a Black Powder load to reliably run a glock 17 as a follow up to a previous video. https://youtu.be/yuE0jkq4_1o

Paul: ***

Promo about upcoming training classes here.

(June 24, 25th 2017.  Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced.  9am -5pm both days. Richmond, IL)

(August 10-13, 2017. MAG-40. Sioux Falls, SD)

(August 26 & 27, 2017. Beyond Concealed Carry Enhanced. Sioux Falls, SD)


2- News 1

It is Good to be Number One

The truth must be repeated numerous times to overcome a constant harangue of lies being told to shape public opinion.  That is true whether the subject is healthcare, global warming or gun rights.  The comrades in the establishment media would have us believe every narrative that provides for government solutions at the cost of individual liberty.  

The UK’s Telegraph, hardly a right-wing publication, recently published an article with some interesting findings.  One unsurprising fact is that the US leads the world in per-capita gun ownership at a rate of 112.6 per 100 residents.  It is good to be number one!  However, as AWR Hawkins noted, America, “does not even crack the Top 10 when it comes to firearm-related deaths.”  Have you seen the establishment media’s headline coverage of this?  Of course not!  Don’t forget the fact that America’s murder rate dropped significantly during a period of surging gun purchases.

Other gun-loving citizens can be found in the second country on the list, Serbia.  Relatively favorable gun laws and a recent history of war in the region explain the high ownership rate of 75.6 firearms per 100 Serbians.  When was the last time you heard about an epidemic of violence there?

Switzerland, Sweden and Norway also made the top ten list.  Are these countries dealing with blood flowing in the streets?  They seem to be doing better than their French counterparts who are strictly limited when it comes to gun ownership.  It may surprise you to find that Yemen, Saudi Arabia and Iraq are also in the top ten.  

Leading the list of countries with the highest rates of firearms-related deaths is Honduras.  The highest incidence of gun-related deaths in the world is 67.2 per 100,000 annually.  That is a 0.067% chance that an average Honduran will be killed by a person using a firearm.  

Rounding out the top ten are eight other Latin American countries and one African nation.  Only one nation, Uruguay, appears in both lists; number eight in ownership and number 10 in deaths.  This country has a population slightly lower than that of Connecticut,  The article does not provide the relative percentage of toddlers in the Uruguayan population.

This is just another story in the long list of unreported facts that are being withheld from your neighbors.  Why?  Because this story shows that more guns correlates to less crime.  Also, it might be politically incorrect to point out that crime rates in Latin America seem a little high.

Roundtable on Presidential Election



  • Trump won and has changed his tone a bit, what does that mean for gun owners?
  • What does the election say about mass media and the new media.
  • Several pro-gun bills waiting in the wings, what should move first?
  • Remover suppressors from NFA.  Reciprocity.
  • What can Trump do without waiting for legislation?
  • This election shows how fragile our liberties really are.  Three million illegal aliens in a popular vote that was decided by less than one million votes.- RM


Paul, Rob, Charlotte, Gary, Matt

Gun Quote – “Can shooting the guy in the stomach kill him? Sure, but probably not in your lifetime.” – Tom Givens (talking about shot placement in a gunfight)

#2  Look, I dunno how to tell you this, buster, but you just can’t go around shooting down light aircraft with a handgun. – Captain Mitchell of the Las Vegas PD in Rockford Files, season 1 episode 2 timestamp 46:30

3- Guest Bob Mayne – competition

Our guest tonight is the co-founder of the Self Defense Radio Network and host of the Handgunworld and Today’s Survival podcasts. Bob is also a personal friend of mine and someone who I look up to when it comes to firearms application. Bob, thanks for joining us!

In a show before the election took over all conversation in the nation I mentioned that I was not a big fan of competition and though that it wasn’t necessary for a gun owner to be in competition if they practiced often and got quality training.  You and I have had conversations over the phone about this since then and I wanted to bring you on to give the listeners your take, so if someone owns a handgun for self defense and carries on a regular basis do they need to compete?

Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with defensive gun use.


4- Far Side of the Gun Counter

The Far Side of the Gun Counter

Ruger LC9s

In every podcast we recommend the listeners carry a gun for their protection. POGO! However, we rarely discussed the hardware itself – we were always too smart for that.  Well, with this inaugural episode of The Far Side of the Gun Counter, we’re correcting that brief diversion into sanity with our review of Ruger’s LC9s concealed carry pistol.

Obvious Stuff:

        The LC9s (Light Compact 9 – striker) is Ruger’s offering in the concealed carry 9×19 market. At first glance the Ruger LC9s is a small to medium-sized pistol with a black polymer lower and a matte blued slide. It tapes in as 6” long and 4 ½” tall, with conventional 3-dot sights. It tips the scales at only 17.2 ounces unloaded. The mag holds 7 rounds of 9, one more than the Glock 43. The trigger bears the mark of the striker with a Glockish dingus protruding from the face. The slide incorporates some deep and usable serrations at the rear. Fit and finish are typical Ruger’s high standards and certainly acceptable. The firearms corners and edges are nicely rounded and streamlined for discreet carry. All in all, it’s handsome-looking pistol.

The LC9s also feels good in the hand. At 9/10 of an inch of width, the well textured grip is thin enough for small hands. And the longish grip and the pinkie extension on the magazine make it comfortable for big paws. The gun points well and the controls are nicely placed and usable, although necessarily small. With the proper technique, the gun is easy to load, cock and unload.  The trigger has a long, light take-up, then a moderate final pull and let off. Our test sample, Charlotte Foxtrot’s Raspberry LC9s (yes, the girlies love their pink), has a measured 5 ¼ pound trigger pull. The reset is moderate, with a faintly audible click. In our humble opinion, the trigger is well suited for a firearm meant to be carried. And it happens to be one of the best striker-fired triggers out there.


        The pistol comes in three basic configurations. The first is the LC380, which incorporates the old gaw-dawful shrouded hammer firing system stolen from the Ruger LCP, from which it also swipes the anemic .380 ACP cartridge. With the .380 in a 9mm sized pistol and the horrific trigger, this pistol is chock full of suck and fail. Yea Olde Gonne Shoppe had a LC380 when it opened, and it’ll probably still be there when the store closes many years in the future. If a plus-sized .380 is desired, consider the Walther PPK – which has all sorts of style points to boot.  

        The second configuration is the basic LC9s.  It also comes with a left side external safety and a magazine disconnect. The safety is nicely recessed and would be difficult to engage accidently. If you engage it on purpose – well, that’s your problem. The magazine disconnect “safety” is just plain annoying. A witness hole is provided for checking the status of the barrel chamber. The pistol is sold with one 7 round magazine, an orange plastic dummy magazine and an unpadded gun rug. The dummy magazine satisfies some insane New Jersey regulation, but it’s very useful for practicing magazine changes and dry firing. When this version was introduced, it immediately received significant praise, especially when compared to the low bar set by the prior hammer-fired version.

To make the third configuration of the LC9s, Ruger got over their well-known fear of liability lawyers and did the unthinkable: they actually eliminated some so-called safety features. Ruger dropped the magazine disconnect and external manual safety to create the LC9s Pro. Many self-defense instructors recommend against the thumb safety and magazine disconnect for a self-defense firearm. In a life-or-death situation, the pistol simply has to work, work now, and work every time. Fumbling around with an external safety or dealing with a partially dropped magazine could take the remainder of a lifetime. With those deletions, the Pro is the definitive version of the pistol and our overwhelming recommendation for the best LC9s.   


As you’d expect, there’s a lot of options and accessories for this popular pistol.  Ruger has 14 additional SKUs, for colored, camoed, engraved, and otherwise tarted-up pistols that can be bought from the various firearm distributors. The poor pistol is even offered in Hospital Puss Green by TALO. There are lasers and lights and holsters and aftermarket sights in abundance. What we certainly recommend are the extended capacity mags for the necessary reloads. Ruger offers 9 round extended magazines; and ProMag has their well-regarded 10 rounders. We favor SnagMag’s vertical pocket magazine holsters. Another of our favorites is the Talon black granulate grip applique, for an enhanced grip.


        We found our LC9s to be an excellent shooter, accurate and reliable. The pistol shot to the point of aim at 7 yards. We’ve had no failures though about 300 mixed rounds of ball and hollow-point. The long grip allowing for a three fingers hold makes the pistol very controllable.  Managing the trigger reset was a simple task – this gun would be easy to shoot fast and accurately. Although we haven’t benchrested it yet, the LC9s looks to have more than acceptable accuracy for a self defense pistol.     



       In our not so humble opinion, the Ruger LC9s Pro is one of the better concealed carry handguns out there. It combines the respected 9mm cartridge, an 8 round capacity, excellent overall ergonomics with quality and shoot-ability.  All for a good price. You just can’t go wrong.  

Rob-  How does the LC9s reset compare to glocks?

Matt- Video Handgun actions matter in recoil. https://youtu.be/lJyWfWREv1c?t=2m41s


Paul –

Charlie Foxtrot
For the Polite Society Podcast

5- DGUs  (at beginning) These discussions are NOT legal advice. Some of us are trainers, but this is not formal training and YOU NEED formal training. The Defensive Gun Use segment is intended to promote thought and discussion, NOT as training. As always the opinions of the hosts are only their own opinions and not those of any sponsors or other affiliations.


Concealed Carrier Saves a Cop’s Life

A Lee County, Florida deputy was about to lose his life. He was flat on his back being beaten mercilessly by the attacker above him. Then — a good samaritan appeared, and like the Biblical Good Samaritan, he was armed.   

The deadly attack started with a high speed chase. Deputy First Class Dean Bardes saw a driver dangerously using the left hand breakdown lane to speed past a traffic jam. After a chase in excess of a hundred miles per hour, the deputy pulled the car over near the I-75 Corkscrew Road exit. The driver leapt from his car, pulled the deputy from his cruiser, and began savagely beating him. According to a witness, “He just kept beating him and beating him, throwing him to the ground and punching him in all different directions.”  

As the armed man continued to thrash the deputy; a civilian acted. The licensed concealed carrier ran up, yelling for the attacker to get off the officer. In the words of another witness, “The guy that protected, shot the bad guy, was a guy that pulled over on the ramp and saw the guy beating the officer. He pulled out his gun.” With the deputy yelling “shoot him, shoot him, shoot him,” the CCW carrier again order the attacker away. When the attacker did not stop his assault, the civilian fired. “I heard like three shots. He fell down on top of the police officer,” said a witness. “After a moment, the police officer rolled him back over, got on his mic, then rolled over back on the ground besides the guy.”

The injured deputy was hospitalized and later released. He was seen wearing bandages and hugging other deputies as he left the hospital. The attacker died after receiving advanced first aid alongside the freeway. Any further information on the attacker is being withheld until the man’s next of kin can be notified. The good samaritan was unhurt. The Sheriff’s Department investigation is ongoing, but the CCW carrier is not expected to be charged.     

When seconds count, a concealed carrier can be there. Well done, sir. Well done indeed.  

Gary –

Rob- I wonder if the sheriff wants us to stand by, make a phone call, and be a good witness?  Thank you for protecting the life of innocents.


Sheriff Wayne Ivey – https://youtu.be/t7ZG8SqaqgE

Two Toughs Threaten to Kill a Tougher 73-Year-Old

Two St Louis thugs surprised a 73-year-old puttering around in his closed garage. When one robber put a gun to the homeowner’s head and forced him back, the elderly gentleman pulled his pocketed handgun and fired. News helicopter video showed Jonathan Warren (18) of Florissant, and Lonnie Middlebrook (20) of Ferguson, Missouri lying motionless by the walk-in doorway of the garage, a thick stream of blood running into the alley.  

Witnesses heard 7 or 8 shots. Police recovered two firearms at the scene, in addition to the homeowner’s. One criminal’s gun was reported stolen several days earlier by the Florissant Police Department. The initial police investigation indicated that the shooting was in self-defense and the victim was not expected to be charged with any crime. The homeowner wisely refused to discuss the shooting with the media.

The elderly gentleman is said to be devastated by the incident. The retired fireman has lived in the home for decades and is known as a “super, super nice person.” Neighbors knew he was an avid hunter, but he was never seen carrying a firearm. But he may have seen crime before; neighbors believe he has been robbed at least once. Many of his neighbors are certain the homeowner wouldn’t have opened fire unless he was in fear for his life.

POGO saves another innocent life.

Rob- One news article I read said the homeowner only fired five times.  Note that trained police only hit their target with one out of five shots.  This homeowner hit his target center of mass 5 times.

Paul – good on the homeowner for keeping quiet with the media.

Rob- There is a huge impulse to talk when we’re scared after a frightening event.

Armed Civilian Saves Stabbing Victim

A 26-year-old woman is alive today because a good man with a gun acted to save her life. Summoned by the victim’s 911 call, police arrived minutes later at a Garner, North Carolina apartment house to find the young woman collapsed and bleeding in the parking lot. Her savior stood nearby; her attacker cowered in her apartment. The victim was transported to a local hospital, as was her assailant. There, Randolph Maurice Davidson, 32, died from multiple gunshot wounds. His victim underwent emergency surgery and will likely survive, but will need to remain in the hospital for a week or more.    

“My daughter would be dead if it weren’t for (the armed neighbor),” according to the victim’s mother. The 26-year-old man was in his own apartment when he heard a woman’s screams, he grabbed his gun and went outside to help. He found Davidson using a large kitchen knife to stab the woman. That attack had started when ex-boyfriend Davidson broke into the victim’s apartment, grabbed a kitchen knife, and attempted to kill her. She escaped to the parking lot, but Davidson caught her and resumed his attack. The neighbor was forced to shoot several times in order to save her life. Mortally wounded, Davidson stumbled back into the victim’s apartment, where he was later found by police.

The neighbor was roundly praised for his actions. According to police, no charges have been filed and the neighbor is not in custody.

When seconds count, 911’s help is only minutes away. However, a civilian’s firearm was there in those deadly seconds to make every bit of difference in a young woman’s life.    

* Randolph Maurice Davidson
A CCBI Photo

Matt –

Paul – I want to contrast this with the bunker in mentality.

Another Hero Brings a Gun to a Knife Fight

A CCW holder prevented multiple murders when he used his firearm to stop and detain a madman. Daniel Williams arrived at a Cedar Falls, Iowa apartment house to find a fresh slice of hell. Adam Scott Jacobsen, 28, attacked tenant Jeffrey Miller, 62, and William’s girlfriend, Denice Bennett, 47; stabbing both with a large knife. Williams stepped out of his car, pulled his gun, and ordered Jacobsen to the ground. The suddenly sane madman complied and remained on the ground until police arrived. Williams even had the presence of mind to holster his gun before the police showed up.  

Both victims were hospitalized. Miller is in critical condition with 24 stab wounds. Apartment manager Bennett endured eight stabbings; her condition is not known at this time. CCW carrier Williams was uninjured. Jacobsen was arrested and charged with two counts of attempted murder. The judge had set his bond at $1 million before the knifeman was hospitalized for medical and psychiatric treatment. The prosecutor thoughtfully requested paper restraining orders to prohibit Jacobsen from contacting his victims. The Chief Public Defender then asked the court to put everything on hold because of serious concerns about Jacobsen’s competency.

      Jacobsen’s competency was well known to the legal system. His last run-in with the law came when he attacked a woman tenant in another hotel he was staying at.  He hit, choked and threw her to the ground hard enough to knock her out. He later left voicemail messages threatening to beat her, rape her, and kill her and her children. For those acts he was convicted of a misdemeanor assault causing bodily injury and first-degree harassment, and sentenced to not more than two years in prison. However, he was soon back on the streets; credited with time served and paroled. There was no mention of any court appointed treatment for his obvious mental condition. In a recent rambling Facebook screed worthy of a tenured Urban Studies professor, he stated; “Yeah I’m (expletive deleted) crazy, bipolar scizo. Yeah I have thoughts of hurting myself and others.” Chillingly, he bragged about committing murders and not getting caught – and never, ever getting caught for his future murders.

The lesson here is clear: carry every day. You never know when you’ll meet with an “(expletive deleted) crazy” who’s been kicked free by the legal system to spread his insanity and horror amongst the public.  

POGO. POGO hard!

Adam Jacobsen

Booking Photo

Pizza Hut and the Decline of Western Civilization Very early in a Charlotte, North Carolina morning, three violent, armed criminals burst into a Pizza Hut restaurant. An employee reacted to the deadly situation with his legally possessed concealed weapon. The employee fired at an invader; fatally wounding 28-year-old Michael Grace. His two accomplices left Grace to die on the restaurant floor; they fled and have not been located. There were no customers in the closed for the night restaurant and none of the workers were harmed.

Pizza Hut placed the employee on leave pending completion of the official investigation. Pizza Hut’s corporate policy on employees carrying firearms varies by franchise location, and the specifics of the Charlotte franchise are not known at this time. Grace’s weapon was recovered at the scene; other facts support the contention of self-defense. As of now, police have not determined if the employee will face any charges. “The investigation is still ongoing,” a statement from CMPD read, “any new information will be released by Public Affairs.”

The parents of Michael Grace showed no such restraint, calling for the employee to be immediately jailed. “Why in the hell did this guy have a gun?” demanded Temia Hairston, the mother of the deceased Grace. “If there was to be a death, it was not the place of the employee at Pizza Hut. That is the place of law enforcement.” While admitting his son’s crime, Michael Grace Sr. said; “Even a criminal has a right, to a degree.”

A parent’s grief is certainly understandable. However, in a videoed interview, the angry parents stretched the bounds of reality. Excusing their son’s criminal actions, they said he had fallen on hard times and resorted to crime to provide for his own child. “It was an act of desperation, but I do not believe that Michael would have hurt anyone.” Hairston even said the shooting may have been personal, alleging past conflicts with restaurant employees. “This wasn’t a body shot. This was a head shot. My son was shot in the left side of his head just behind his ear. A head shot is personal,” opined Hairston. As if any shot isn’t ultimately personal.

Grace’s parents conveniently ignored the fact that their son had a deadly weapon in hand during the commission of a violent robbery. A reasonable man would have probably believed that all the elements of justifiable self-defense action were there: the ability, opportunity and intent to cause great bodily harm. Given that, there is no one to blame for their son’s death but their son. It’s all too easy to imagine a plaintiff attorney whispering those falsehoods, half truths, excuses and allegations; filling the ears of the parents with outrage and promises of large monetary awards.   

Many self-defense instructors warn about the civil lawsuit phase of a defensive shooting. Relatives who haven’t spoken to the deceased in decades may suddenly feel a deep, personal loss. A loss that could only be healed by a large amount of cash. The lawful concealed carrier should be aware of this unfortunate reality. Options in education, planning, and self-defense insurance should certainly be pursued.

Forewarned is forearmed.



We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.


6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close

Listener e-mail discussion

I had sent you several emails regarding the election. I never thought he had a chance at winning the electoral college. You guys were right, and I was wrong! The first time I thought you guys might be right was when the lines were longer than I’ve ever seen here in small town PA. I did my part and voted for trump even though I don’t personally like the guy.

So now we have the house, senate, presidency, and most of the governors, at least for two years. We need to keep the pressure on to get some of our rights back.

Thanks for all you do, and keep up the great work.


Paul- Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

Can Trump Protect Gun Owners with His Phone and His Pen?

-Republican Politicians Have to Deliver.. or “You’re Fired”

Miscalculations of the 2016 Elections

-Not Quite Ready for Concealed Carry was posted at 2nd Call Defense.

Those articles and more are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland, and at my blog slow facts dot wordpress dot com.

Gary- We’d like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com

Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  So for Charlie Foxtrot, Craig, Gary, Rachel, Susan,Charlotte, and Rob,  Until the next time…

(Paul, stop talking now)

Rob: stay safe,

Gary: be aware,

Charlotte: and we’ll see you down the road.