Episode 375 – Interviews with Larry Piekarski and Grant Cunnigham

Full Episode Download:

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment 1

3- Interview Segment 1: Guest  Larry Piekarski

4- Interview Segment 2: Guest Grant Cunningham

5- DGU Segment:

6- Email and Show Close:


1- Introduction

“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast sponsored by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Thursday April 28th 2016, I’m Paul Lathrop.

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we talk about a gun buy-back event in Chicago, and a gun sell-back in Arizona

John: I’m John Richardson, and we’ll talk with  Larry Piekarski about using SIRT pistols in training

Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone, and we also welcome back Grant Cunningham for an interview tonight.

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in our DGU segment we talk about a DGU gone very wrong   .. so climb aboard

Rachel: strap in

John : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 375 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob- I recorded another episode of SDGS.  Bloomberg wants my website, Everytown for Gun Safety.wordpress.com.  If there are lawyers in the house I want them to call me.  I was on lock and load radio with Bill Frady.


John – Barb and I will be taking off on Friday afternoon for the East Tennessee Bloggershoot held in Oak Ridge, TN. I have been busy assembling what firearms I want to take. The event is being organized by Dennis Badurina of Dragon Leatherworks. You may have seen some of his work on the TV shows NCIS and NCIS New Orleans. It will be fun to catch up with bloggers who I haven’t seen since the NRA Annual Meeting in Nashville.


Rachel – I went to the range TWICE! The second time, all the pistol bays were occupied with a Steel Challenge match. They let me jump in and shoot a stage. I had enough fun that I intend to go back next week for the whole thing.


A note for anyone attending the Republican Party of Texas state convention in Dallas in May: Conventions are chaotic and confusing. There are a few ways you can make an impact instead of wandering aimlessly and having no idea what’s happening. (1) Attend about 4 cycles (over 8 years) and eventually pick up on how it works.  (2) Tag along with someone you trust and do what they do. You’ll still never really figure it out but hopefully if they voted right then you did too. (3) Get some training ahead of time and get things done the first time (or, this time). I recommend Jeremy Blosser’s FANTASTIC training. Video link: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/85953256


Gary –

Friend of the show, Miggy wrote a blog post this week about some Oklahoma instructors encouraging the legislators to pass a bill requiring more firearm training. As John Lott has said training requirements and expensive permits most affect the people that are most likely to need a firearm to protect themselves.


Rob- Choose your own training and trainers.


Paul/Susan – Paul – shot some to prepare for the MAG 40 , Had a court date and things went VERY well



Promo about upcoming training classes here.



2- News 1


Obama Continues To Press Pro-Criminal Initiatives   (Charlie’s Rant) (News/ Editorial)

During these endless months of Obama’s Long Goodbye, our boyish President seems unconcerned with the faltering economy, imploding Obamacare, Islamic terrorism, or an incoherent Foreign Policy, but is focused on fundamentally transforming the criminal’s place in American society.


Obama has long ranted about the number of minorities in prison, blaming a racist society instead of the perpetrators. He blamed the police for the imbalance, and through the DOJ’s regulations created the Ferguson Effect and Fetal Policing. Now, Loretta Lynch’s DOJ is requiring judges to throw away the law when dealing with minority criminals.


His administration is working to force the mainstreaming of felons, allowing them federal jobs, unfettered housing access and pushing toward restored rights, despite the very real risks of these criminals. He’s pardoned hundreds of violent drug dealers and reduce the sentences of hundreds of thousands more. It does appear that criminals are Obama’s latest prized and protected demographic – at an obvious cost to law-abiding Americans.  


In his latest Saturday Weekly Address, Obama continued to champion the felons. Delivered in his usual condescending tone, da Prez lectured the nation on the unfairness of criminal justice system and again pushed the need to radically reform American society. As is his wont, he threw out several unsupported claims, misrepresented statistics, all leavened by a smattering of  bald-faced lies. A prime example is his declaration that  “We know that simply locking people up doesn’t make communities safer.” We certainly do NOT know that. His statement is shown to be a lie by decades of experience with targeted enforcement, mandated sentencing, three-strikes laws, and . It was a tour-de-force of every misguided policy from this administration.  


     As in all of Obama policies, the question is “Why?” It’s easy to see the racialist motive: the Democrat minority coalition is showing some deep fractures, and the long solid black and Latino vote is showing signs of straying. More insidious are the efforts to radically remake American society by undermining as many institutions as possible. Regardless, these policies will likely remake America in the image of Chicago, New York, Baltimore, Philadelphia and San Francisco where Progressive policies have already resulted in a crime riddled environment.  And if Obama and Hillary can disarm the nation as they want, our country could be a very dangerous place indeed.  

Stay armed – stay vigilant – stay capable. Now more than ever.        


Rob- President Obama supports any demographic group who predominantly votes democratic.  That is the Chicago way.  The president doesn’t mind breaking the law to do so.

John – We have seen the start of this in Virginia with Gov. Terry McAuliffe just pardoned 200,000 felons and restored their rights including voting.


Gary –


What if we had a well publicized gun buy-back program in Chicago.. And the criminals ignored it.  You see, criminals don’t’ get their guns from honest gun owners.  People who don’t shoot are the ones who turn in old 22 rifles in exchange for gift cards.  I’m sorry to burst your anti-gun bubble, but criminal don’t use 22 caliber bolt action rifles to commit crimes..but the boy scouts use them to teach gun safety to beginning shooters.  Which group are you disarming with a gun-buy back?


Chicago Police Superintendent Eddie Johnson said “Many of the people who would come to a gun buy-back event aren’t the ones causing problems.”  We call that a firm grasp of the obvious.


Rob- Political theater to promote politicians!

John –


Meanwhile, Arizona, Sheriff Joe Arpaio was selling the guns he collected from criminals.  He then used the $140,000 in gun sales to buy ammunition for his volunteer posse.  Well, he bought some radios as well as nearly 500 cases of ammo in 9mm, .45, and .223.  The guns were sold to gun stores and from there to private purchasers.


Rob- See, no 40 cal.


Colorado Democrats Kill Repeal of Large Cap Mag Ban


There was hope that Colorado’s large or standard capacity magazine ban would be repealed. The Colorado Senate had voted to repeal the ban in mid-April. The bill then was sent to the House State, Veterans, and Military Affairs Committee which would have to approve it before it could go to the whole House of Representatives. Late on Monday night, this committee killed the bill on a party line vote. The committee is headed by Su Ryden who is also the House Majority Whip.


John – Ryden is now running for the State Senate. I wonder how much money she’ll get from Bloomberg for her campaign.


Long time publisher of gun magazines Harris Publishing shutting down


If you are in the checkout line at a convenience store or grocery store, or are perusing magazines to take aboard the next flight, you have probably looked over or bought a Harris Publications magazine. Some of the titles they publish are Combat Handguns, Guns and Weapons, Survivors Edge and Tactical Weapons among many others. Today they announced that they are shutting down as of April 29th. This is an unfortunate sign of the times as publishers everywhere are competing with the likes of blogs, YouTube and Podcasts. It is unfortunate that a large name in the gun world is shutting the doors.


John – It’s sad and it’s not sad. Publications like Recoil which is aimed at a younger audience seem to be doing well. Likewise, more narrowly tailored publications like Handloader, Rifle, and American Handgunner seem on solid footing. This announcement merely shows that the market works.


DOJ To Post “Smart Gun” Request for Comment Tomorrow


The Department of Justice is seeking public comments on their test procedures to “to determine whether the addition of a smart gun technology does or does not significantly reduce the reliability of the firearm system compared to existing firearms.” It will be posted to the Federal Register on Friday, April 29th and comments will close 45 days later. They are calling this the Gun Safety Technology Challenge.


John – My suggestion is just to follow the Four Rules. In the meantime, I think it is time for our listeners, especially those that are engineers, to submit comments. Rob, that means you!


Rob- Marketers lie.  Start with legislative security details and school resource officers where THEIR children go to school.  Start with LEOs.


John –


Gun Quotes  The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground. – Thomas Jefferson




4- Interview 1 –  Larry Piekarski

SIRT Pistols – Firearms Training at Gunsense.  SIRT training.  iMarksman system.


Larry, we recently had a conversation about using SIRT pistols in conjunction with training and you told us that you have some experience with that. How have you been using them?  NRA basic pistol.


Rob- Do you let your students move with the SIRT pistol?


Rob- Lasers are good for distance shooting at night.


5- Interview 2 – Grant Cunningham


Motorcycles and guns-

You don’t have a third hand to use a firearm when you’re on the road.  There is a lot of keyboard heroes who give bad advice.

Bikes have an advantage in acceleration, deceleration, maneuverability and size.

Suburbia offers you an advantage because a bike can create distance.  Pull into a gas station.  Distance is your defense.

Consider cross draw when you’re riding.. Or a fanny pack.


6- DGUs


Store Owner Fires a McLatchy, Causing Armed Robbers To Flee

The owner of Bridgeport, Connecticut minimart found himself staring down the barrels of two robbers. He returned the favor, with interest – causing the two thugs to flee for their lives.

Two masked and hooded men walked into the store with their guns already drawn. As they stepped inside, one even cocked his weapon. Before words could be exchanged, the store owner reached for his gun and fired a warning shot into the ceiling, sending the bandits stumbling outside. “How am I gonna be scared because when you do a business you’re not supposed to be scared of anything. You make a living,” said the owner, Mohamed Yasir. A licensed firearm holder confronted the suspects outside the store and shots were exchanged. Apparently, none of the shots connected with anything but the store’s window.


Yasir has been there before, he’s been robbed 8 times in 25 years. The last time was just four weeks ago. “I know they came to rob me, they came to shoot me or whatever but always you for to protect yourself. I got family to feed,” Yasir said. The resolute storeholder had already shot two assailants in the past.


Bridgeport Police Captain Brian Fitzgerald said; “We would like our victims or store clerks to just cooperate and hand them the money. But in this case, you have people coming into your store and they’re armed, you have a means to defend yourself, you believe your life is in immediate threat then obviously you have a right to defend yourself.”

While we commend store owner Yasir for his bravery, a warning shot while under the gun cannot be recommended. In that deadly situation, the first shot should have been aimed to stop the attack. And the passerby who injected himself into a situation that was rapidly ending was also foolhardy. If you don’t absolutely need to fire to save your life YOU. DON’T. NEED. TO. FIRE. Yasir might also want to think about a safer location for his business. Someday, he might not be so lucky.

Foresight and training, people. Get some.  


Rob- The gun stays in the holster until it needs to work.


Rachel- Texas penal code chapter 9, use of force – “A threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor’s purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.”


Jilted Lover Breaks Into Woman’s Home – And Gets Shot

Last week, we told you about an ex-boyfriend’s obsession that led to a crime spree of home-invasions, kidnapping, arson, interstate flight, multiple assaults, and an attempted murder that was finally ended by a good samaritan with a gun. This week, we bring you a similar story; however, one where the gun was used at the beginning – to a much happier end.   

A jilted Columbia, South Carolina area man decided to visit his ex-girlfriend very early one Sunday morning. He didn’t ring the doorbell; he broke in through a window. However, the intruder found that his former paramour and future victim had an… “acquaintance” staying with her. And that man was armed.

In defense of their lives, the replacement shot the invader in the upper body. The attack stopped almost before it had begun. Police arrived to take the ex to the local hospital, where his condition has not been disclosed. Investigators are trying to determine if there was domestic abuse in the former couple’s past.

The new boyfriend is not expected to face anything but praise for stopping this assault in the name of love.  


Rob- We’ve heard stories like this before.  Move on.


Three on One Home Invasion – Criminal Gets the Slug
Three thugs have been charged with armed home invasion and attempted murder. The trio fired several shots within the home, but it was the homeowner that landed his response.  

Just outside Youngsville, Louisiana, three thugs tried an early morning home invasion. They surprised a sleeping homeowner who was awake enough to hit one of the criminals in the exchange of gunfire. The suspects escaped to a hospital, where they were arrested by police. The one suspect’s wound was minor enough, and all three were charged with attempted second-degree murder in addition to aggravated burglary.

It should be noted that the homeowner’s firearm allowed him to survive a surprise home invasion by three armed and prepared thugs, winning his life against fearsome odds. Without the firearm, the homeowner would have been at the non-existent mercy of the three criminals; a clear validation of the need to be armed.

You listening, Hillary?  


Rob- Would that work in California where a firearm has to be locked when not in use?

Gary –

John – A Clinton utopia? Is that a new name for Hell?

Paul – Sleep inertia

Rachel- yes


One Suspect Dead, One Wounded in Home Invasion
An 80-year-old man shot two robbers who had forced their way into his home.  One of them was taken to the hospital, the other to the morgue.

The elderly gentleman opened his Fairmont, West Virginia door to a distraught young  woman pleading to use his phone in an emergency. His chivalry was abused when two unseen, black-clad accomplices forced the open door and threatened the man with a pistol. In that desperate situation, the homeowner pulled his own gun and shot the two suspects. Police arrived to find one man lying in the road with a gunshot to the face and neck. He was pronounced dead at the scene. His partner was found across the street suffering from an abdominal wound. The 23-year-old female shill escaped but was later captured by the police. Their pistol was found to be a realistic airsoft or BB gun.  

John Grossklaus, 28, will survive his injury. He has been charged with robbery, with many other charges to follow. He has also been booked for an earlier strong arm robbery that put the victim is the hospital. That earlier assault, in partnership with the deceased, occurred a mere 30 minutes before the home invasion. Unsurprisingly, the burglar, Grossklaus, has also been charged with parole violations. Whitney Kabiru, 23, was charged with robbery and conspiracy.


In their press release, police stated the homeowner had reason to believe that his use of force was necessary to defend himself against a perceived imminent use of unlawful deadly force. No charges are expected for elderly man.

We can certainly learn a lot from this encounter. The firearm allowed an elderly man to stand against two younger, more powerful, more violent men. On body carry allowed an immediate, lifesaving response. Wearing the gun even late in the night at home (POGO) kept a bad situation from becoming even worse. And finally, DON’T allow anyone you don’t have reason to trust access to your home – especially after midnight. The elderly gentleman’s civility could have cost him his life – except for the equalizer of his firearm.


Paul – I want to reiterate the on body carry importance


A Bad Shoot Will Likely Cost a Homeowner and Benefit a Criminal

Most of our DGUs usually feature stories where the victim uses a gun correctly to defend lives. We would be remiss if we didn’t also include instances where a firearm was used incorrectly, in this case to the detriment of the victim and the benefit of the criminal.     


In Portland, Indiana, a criminal convicted of burglarizing a garage is suing the homeowner who shot him. David McLaughlin, 33, fired at the thief running from his garage. One of the bullets hit David Bailey, 31, in the left arm as he ran down the alley. A Jay County Superior Court jury found McLaughlin guilty of criminal recklessness in the shooting of the fleeing suspect. He was sentenced to 60 days in jail, with four months of home detention. The criminal Bailey was given a sentence of only three-years home detention with no jail time.

Now, Bailey is suing homeowner McLaughlin for “serious and permanent damage” to his arm, asking for “a monetary award in an amount sufficient to compensate for all damages.”


The use of a firearm is a very serious business. In most states, self-defense is the ONLY reason deadly force can be allowed. Defense of property is seldom a sufficient reason. As a rule, only an immediate, credible, realistic threat to life or limb can justify a shooting. And if the encounter has ended, and the suspect is trying to escape, the armed citizen cannot fire. Adequate training, like Massad Ayoob’s MAG 40, would have informed the man of what he could — and most importantly must not — do. That training could have saved an honest man a jail sentence and having to give his money to a crook.  


Paul – Every bullet has a lawyer attached to it

Rob- You can’t let your emotions drive your trigger finger.  Training will teach you when not to stop.  Advanced practice will reinforce that decision.

Rachel- I’ve been told Texas law allows greater use of force (including deadly force) to protect property than any other state (or most others). Still, know the law and know what is worth deadly force to you. (http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/SOTWDocs/PE/htm/PE.9.htm, subsection D)

Gary –

John – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy


Rob- insurance

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



When we come back we have an answer to last week’s question about shot timers 🙂

7- E-mail, blog notes, and show close


Listener e-mail discussion


Jake wrote in about Ham Radios


You guys briefly mentioned the Baofeng handheld radio last episode in the context of emergency preparedness.  As someone who recently got into ham radio for prepping purposes and who got a Baofeng, I wanted to elaborate on what you guys were saying a bit.


With handheld radios in general and the Baofeng in particular, you need to understand the limits of your equipment.  You will not be using this rig to talk to China, or even the next town over.  Your effective range with this unit is perhaps 3-6 miles, or around 40-80 miles if you are on high ground or talking to a repeater that has good line of sight, though this is all extremely dependent on terrain.  Still, the frequencies it can listen to are in common use by police and rescue units, and radios like this are often used in disaster scenarios.  It also can listen to FM radio and NOAA weather stations, which are very useful for natural disasters.


Regarding licensing, there is a specific exemption in the FCC rules that allows anyone to use any radio equipment if it is the best way to save someone’s life or safety, regardless of licensing.  That said, much like the DGU you discussed last week, you don’t want your first time using your emergency equipment to be during a crisis.  The Baofeng can be difficult to operate and program, and takes a lot more expertise than your little walkie-talkies you used as a kid.  Without a license, it is impossible to verify if you programmed the radio right, so while you can certainly listen, you won’t know if anyone can hear you talk until it’s too late.  The technician license to operate the Baofeng is very easy to get, though, and costs less than $20, so if you plan on using one for emergencies, PLEASE get a license and learn how to use it.  This has the side benefit of putting you in contact with other operators who can help you learn and maybe give you some suggestions as to your next step.


Keep up the good work,

Jake from Iowa


John – I agree. Get the license. I did – KJ4HTR or Kilo Juliet 4 Hotel Tango Romeo in Ham-speak. Ham Clubs will train you how to use your radio and radios in general. The American Radio Relay League and their members want to help.

Gary –


Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Rob-  I was sick this week.  So I’d lay in bed for a few hours and then post on my blog.  I wrote about honest New Yorkers having to bribe police in order to get a gun.  I wrote about government officials in the United States and in France saying they citizens should be disarmed and wait for help if they are attacked.  Those articles are up at Clash Daily, at Ammoland, and at my blog-  slow facts dot wordpress dot com.


John, tell us what’s new at your blog, only guns and money


Sorry to hear that you were sick! I posted a story on Saturday morning about actor Brad Pitt co-hosting an event for the Brady Campaign. This is the same Brad Pitt who gave Angelina Jolie a $400,000 indoor shooting range for their French chateau. This plus some earlier statements gave the misimpression that Mr. Pitt was “good” on guns. Actually, he believes in gun for him and none for you peasants. I’d say this makes him a hypocrite. While I hate to toot my own horn, my post was published 2-3 days before Breitbart and other sites picked up the story.


That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.


We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Larry Piekarski and Grant Cunningham for joining us today.  So for Charlie Foxtrot, Gary, Rob, John, Rachel and Susan,

(Paul, stop talking now)


Rob: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Rachel: be aware,

John: and we’ll see you down the road.

2 thoughts on “Episode 375 – Interviews with Larry Piekarski and Grant Cunnigham

  1. Hi Paul and Co., love the show.

    A technical comment: For some reason Susan’s voice is hard to hear sometimes. Can you turn up her gain, or get her a different microphone?


    • With episode 376 you should notice an improvement. Even bigger improvement coming soon. We have a new mixer that allows her to have her own channel, and a new microphone is on it’s way. Thank you for getting in touch. Many people might have just quit listening without writing in! Paul

Comments are closed.