Episode 372 – Interview with Alex Kincaid and we get a little crazy in News 1

Full Episode Download:

1- Open and Personal News Segment

2- News Segment

3- News 2 Segment

4- Interview: Alex Kincaid

5- DGU Segment:

6- Email and Show Close:


1- Introduction

“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”

Paul: Welcome to the polite society podcast sponsored by the Firearms Policy Coalition recorded on Thursday April 7th 2016, I’m Paul Lathrop

Rob: I’m Rob Morse and on tonight’s show we talk with Alex Kincaid about recent court decisions affecting Idaho gun laws.

John: I’m John Richardson, We will also talk about my former home county in North Carolina that wanted to ban carry in county buildings and parks.

Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone and we’ll announce two more states which have passed Constitutional Carry!

Gary: I’m Gary Daugherty and in one of our Defensive Gun Use stories, a woman interrupts a burglar who is coming into her child’s bedroom window, so climb aboard

Rachel: strap in

Rob : and hang on!

Paul:  episode 372 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.

Show intro music.


Personal news from each participant (when you are done with your segment please ask the next person what has been up with them)


Rob-  I carried every day and all day.  Dry fired at home and live fired at the range.  Released another episode of self defense gun stories with Jeff Street, and we had our 4000th download today.  I’m reading a book on the second amendment by William Weir.  I also received Laura Carno’s book, “Government ruins nearly everything”.  Voted for NRA board of directors.  Ballots are due May 1, so mail them now.


John – Since I was last on, I spent Easter with my granddaughter who is growing by leaps and bounds, blogged some, and worked. Oh, and I won an auction for a rifle that I think was made by the great gunsmith and wildcatter P. O. Ackley. I put my bid in not expecting to win and now it is being shipped to my local FFL. The rifle is in .256 Newton which means I will be reloading for it. The caliber dates from 1916 and was one of the first to break the 3000 ft/sec. Barrier.

This weekend I’ll be going to the Mother Earth News Fair. I know it sounds like Hippie Central but it does draw a lot of preppers. My sister in law will have a booth selling kid’s books.


Rachel – 3 weeks down, 1 to go for spring football (and having two kids around). Last week of middle school choir rehearsals and performances. Not a lot of sleep or shooting. However, I did swing by the A Girl & A Gun meeting a couple weeks ago, and I’ve taught several LTC and Beginner Pistol classes for Texas Tactical Training Institute. More scheduled: April 16 and 18.


Gary – What training do you have coming up?



Rob- South Africa dry fire vs flinch.



Computer issues – if you are registered for the MAG 40 in May, please email me so I have your contact information again.





Promo about upcoming training classes here.

Live promo – Concealment Solutions deal of the day.


2- News


Obama Administration Pro-Crime Initiatives

In the past weeks, the Obama administration has released a series of actions that have direct bearing on the citizens. Largely avoided by the media because of the third-rail nature of the racial politics, these initiatives certainly affect the safety of the Nation’s law abiding.  

First, Obama commuted the sentences of another 61 criminals. Most were involved in distribution of large amounts of illegal drugs, but one in five were also sentenced in part for gun crimes. Many others had their gun crimes dismissed as part of the plea deals that put them in prison. Those 61 join another 187 criminals who have benefited from Obama’s hypocritical approach to crime, where he is hard on the law-abiding gun owners and soft on the actual criminals.

Then, Obama’s Department of Housing and Urban Development issued a decree saying refusing to rent based on a criminal record is a form of racial discrimination. The Fair Housing Act is silent on criminals, but because Blacks and Latinos are arrested at a significantly higher rate than whites, HUD has stretched the law so landlords can no longer use a criminal record to screen applicants. The fact that a criminal record is often a predictor of other undesirable traits must be ignored according to the Federal bureaucracy. Landlords and mortgage providers who violate the administrative decree could face fines in the millions of dollars, depending on the scope of the alleged violations.


 Most troubling is the Obama’s Department of Justice’s nine-page letter to judges around the United States, warning them to limit prosecution of criminals, particularly those of minority status, or risk the loss of federal funding. Municipalities failing to toe the line could see the same type of federal investigations that Ferguson, Missouri endured after the police shooting of black teen Michael Brown. The fact that those shootings were largely found to have been justified, and the municipalities targeted are mostly minority controlled is ignored by the Obama administration.  


Obama’s new soft on crime approach directly affects the fabric of American society. It goes against the rule of law and most of the best practices of law enforcement. It reverses the Broken Window policing that has been shown to be so effective. Critically, it extends the hands-off “Ferguson Effect” that is responsible for so many inner city deaths in St Louis, Baltimore, Cleveland, LA and Chicago. Now, the entire nation is subject to the same enforced chaos. The eventual results are easily predictable.


We have alway suggested that our listeners should be prepared to defend their own lives, for when the government can not — or deliberately will not – defend them. Stay armed, stay vigilant, stay capable. Now, more than ever.


Rob-  $elective enforcement is like “may issue”.  It is a way to get campaign contributions and kickbacks.

John – Most violent crime is tried at the state level. I’d tell Loretta Lynch to keep her money. I’ll stop there because my next comment would not be appropriate for family friendly show.


NJ2AS Gets a Check From New Jersey
This had to have hurt the gun-controlled paradise of New Jersey: The so-called Garden

State had to cough-up a check to the New Jersey 2nd Amendment Society. Show friend Frank Fiamingo’s organization received a 100 thousand dollar check for legal fees associated with the state’s refusal to provide a Firearm Investigative Manual in an Open Public Records Act request. New Jersey refused the request in 2011, prompting the lawsuit and damage award. This is the first time in New Jersey history that the state had to write a check to a Second Amendment organization for legal fees. The NJ2AS will continue to fight for additional fees owed it, as well as the full, unredacted Firearm Investigative Manual.


You go, Frank!


John – I love it when anti-gun governments have to cough up cash to 2A organizations. The only part that bothers me is that it comes from all taxpayers and not just the government officials who broke the law.



Paul- let me bring you back up, Florida says that individual mayors and city and county representatives can be held personally liable for pre-empting state gun laws.


Last Handgun Ban in the United States Defeated

Another one bites the dust: the very last one. The last jurisdiction in America to ban handguns had its ban overturned. The Commonwealth of Northern Mariana Islands lost it’s prohibition of handguns in federal court. The court found the law violated the plaintiffs’ individual right to possess a handgun or other firearm for self-defense as guaranteed by the Second and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution. The plaintiff was attacked and beaten, resulting in injuries including two broken ribs, facial contusions, and a suspected broken orbital bone and eye socket. The court understandably found the law limited the plaintiff’s’ ability to protect themselves and their family in the event of violence.


Let’s see: sunshine, blue water, white sand, coconut drinks, and freedom — what’s not to like!


John – Saipan is the largest island in the Northern Mariana Islands. Let’s remember the over 3,000 Marines who died fighting for it during WW2 so that now they have the same constitutional rights as every other American.




Idaho Approves Constitutional Carry

Formerly famous only for potatoes, Idaho now has another claim to fame: it is now the ninth state to adopt Constitutional Carry! Governor Butch Otter signed Senate Bill 1389, the NRA-endorsed permitless carry legislation. On July 1st Idaho will become the ninth state to recognize a citizen’s ability to possess a concealed handgun for self-defense without government-mandated permitting and fees.


Congratulations, Mashers!

Rachel:  http://alexkincaid.com/index.php/law-blog/post/the-four-year-rickety-road-to-permitless-carry-in-idaho-how-the-people-of-idaho-made-it-happen


Iowans Approve Suppressor Act
Not to be outdone by Idaho’s sudden rush to sanity, Iowans have secured their ability to have suppressors. Governor Terry Branstad just signed the Hearing Protection Act, House File 2279, into law. In the past, Iowans have been denied the use of the commonly available safety equipment that reduces the sound of a gunshot. After three solid years of effort, the bill was passed through a split legislature, powered by a grassroots campaign of social media, e-mails, phone calls, letters and visits. Iowans now can apply to the federal government for the 200 dollar tax stamp, the same as the other 41 states allowing suppressors.   

Congratulations to the Iowa Firearms Coalition! We’re heartened that they are seeing this victory as only the first step in protecting and enhancing Iowa citizens 2nd Amendment Rights.  

John – Now it is time that the US Congress pass the Federal Hearing Protection Act.

Rachel – suppressors are the polite way of shooting

John – I did a blog post a few years ago that suppressors selling for as low as $39 in New Zealand.


Mississippi Votes For Constitutional Carry
After all the above stories, it’s easy to Imagine Mikey Bloomberg reaching for that gallon bottle of aspirin he keeps on the back of his golden commode. This story from Mississippi can only make it better! The Mississippi House has voted 85-35 to concur with Senate amendments to House Bill 786, sending the legislation to Governor Phil Bryant (R) for his expected signature.


The legislation has advanced despite months of misleading attacks by Bloomberg and his anti-gun shills in the Everytown for Gun Safety and Demanding Mommies groups. The legislation also prohibits state or local enforcement of federal executive orders or agency regulations not approved by Congress which conflict with the Constitution of the United States or the Mississippi Constitution. The act also allows church authorities to designate enhanced carry permit holders or those with military or law enforcement backgrounds to protect places of worship and receive the benefits of the state’s Castle Doctrine.

All in all, quite a package, Mississippi. Congratulations! And Mikey, save some aspirin for Shannon.  


Rob- Now I have to read the bills in the Louisiana legislature and see if we can get suppressors legalized.

Rachel: I was hoping Texas could make top 10 or 20…at this rate, we’ll be lucky to make top 45 for Constitutional Carry.

John – Thanks to the Senate committee which added constitutional carry to the bill and to the House for agreeing to these amendments.


Haywood County North Carolina Blinks

Citizens must be forever on-guard when their governments are in session. The good commissioners of Haywood County were considering an ordinance to ban all open and concealed carry in county buildings and parks. That was, until approximately 400 gun rights activists packed the meeting in a show of 1st and 2nd Amendment Freedom. Bloomberg’s astroturf North Carolinians Against Gun Violence failed to put up any credible presence, giving the day to the energized Grass Roots North Carolina group. The county quickly announced that the Haywood County Board of Commissioners will not take any action at their regularly scheduled meeting of Monday, April 4, 2016 on the proposed ordinances for Carrying of Concealed Weapons and Displaying of Firearms …

Congratulations to the GRNC and the pro-gun activists that saved Freedom in the North Carolina county!  Keep up the pressure until the commission drops the proposed ordinance entirely.  You can’t ever turn your back on those bastards.


John – I lived in Haywood County for 32 years before Barb and I got married. The commissioners also had under consideration an outdoor shooting range ordinance. It was so strict that virtually nowhere in the county would have qualified. What makes this even worse is that all police ranges would be exempted. This was because they would have been out of compliance with the new law which required the range be 300 from the property line and ¼ mile to the nearest occupied building.


While I didn’t attend the meeting, I did email the commissioners. I did get a response from Commissioner Kevin Ensley, the lone Republican on the board, who said he was in favor of carry in county buildings and parks.


Rachel: at my LTC classes, students always wonder “why that quirky restriction, and not another?” The legislature doesn’t examine every possible law they could make and pass what they want; they make their decision based on the small groups that make the most noise. Let’s be sure that’s us.

Rob- amen.  Stand up and make noise.

John – You nailed it.

Gun Quotes


John Kennedy, writing in 1960 posited “fears of governmental tyranny” as the impetus “which gave rise to the Second Amendment” to begin with. And although he believed it “unlikely” that such tyranny “[would] ever be a major danger to our nation,” he said “the Second Amendment will always be important.”

We’ll be right back with an interview with Alex Kincaid discussing recent changes to Idaho gun laws.


NEWS 2 – already recorded and edited –


Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our defensive gun use.



3- Interview 1- Alex Kincaid

Alex is a firearms attorney, public speaker, second amendment advocate and author of Defending Your Right to Defend Yourself  Welcome Alex, did I get that right?

  1. Alex, Congratulations to Idaho for enacting permitless carry.  Someone posted an article saying that permitless carry is trouble for Idahoans.  Could you explain that article and your response?
  2. In Illinois the carry law says I can drive right onto school property with my concealed firearm, would this still be a federal violation for Illinois gun owners?
  3. Massad Ayoob makes a distinction between constitutional carry and permit less carry how do you see that issue?
  4. Permitless carry only applies to Idaho residents.
  5. Where can our listeners find out more about you?


4- Interview 2- Brandon Combs


5- DGUs


Dallas Fort Worth Woman Shoots One Invader – And Runs Out of Ammo

Many internet commandos point out that the average self-defense gunfight last less than 3 rounds. They use that fact to justify firearms with reduced round capacity. A Dallas-Fort Worth woman learned the fallacy of the law of averages when two invaders broke down her door.  The 61-year-old woman grabbed her gun and shot one of the intruders in the stomach. However, she ran out of bullets shooting at the second suspect. The uninjured burglar attacked her and beat her severely. “He must of heard me clicking it because that’s when he came back and beat me up really bad,” said the woman. The woman suffered a concussion and her face was covered with cuts and bruises. All in all, she probably got off very lucky.

Saul Guzman, 21, was found in a hospital being treated for a non-life threatening gunshot wound to the stomach. Police found a second suspect, Pedro Guzman, also 21, sitting in his car across the street from the hospital. Investigators also found a stolen purse connected to a different burglary inside a trash can nearby. Both suspects were charged with Burglary of Habitation, Felony Theft or Assault, Theft of Firearm, and Burglary of Vehicle.


The victim said she is installing a security system at her home and will be buying another gun. “I hope other women will take note,” she said. “I am glad I was able to defend myself.” We’re glad she will be buying another gun; we hope that gun will have more capacity – you just never know when you will be the one of the 50% that exceeds that average round count.


Rob- The average number of attackers is 2.3, so the homeowner was lucky she didn’t face 3 attackers.  Missed shots don’t count.  Studying these examples of defensive gun use helps you stay focused and stay on target.  And gut shots are quite lethal, but not immediately incapacitating.


Paul is that 5 or 6 shot revolver really enough?

Rachel: we reported recently on a woman who ran out of ammo with a shotgun without hitting her target. She and her infant twins thankfully still escaped with their lives.


Mother Shoots Intruder in Baby’s Room

An intruder got between a momma bear and her cub, and paid the price. An Indianapolis, Indiana woman heard the sounds of a break-in coming from her baby’s room and armed herself. She surprised the man coming from the room, where he shot first. She returned fire and hit the suspect multiple times. Police took the burglar to the hospital where his condition is unknown. Neither the woman nor her child was injured. William Barnes, 38, has  been charged with burglary with a deadly weapon, taking property by force or threatening the use of force while armed, battery by means of a deadly weapon and carrying a handgun without a license.

Police said this type of incident was very rare in the area, which is mostly quiet and residential. The robber was most unusual, as he carried zip ties and a walkie-talkie.  Police said they will be investigating this incident aggressively.


Rob- The homeowner called her husband, then got her gun.  That dithering gave the intruder time to enter the child’s room.  If she was carrying she might have stopped him from entering the house.


Paul – Walkie talkie means more people were likely involved


Craiglist Date Ends in Gunfire

Now, just who could have seen this coming?  A sexcapade engineered through Craigslist ended in robbery and gunfire. Early Saturday morning a man met met a woman outside a duplex after connecting online. He was walking to an apartment with the woman, when 19-year-old Steven Hurston allegedly appeared with a gun and told him to hand over his money. The victim drew his CCW and fired at Hurston, killing him. The victim called police standing over the robber.  


Chattanooga Police say a local couple has been enticing strangers for sex on websites like Craigslist and Backpage. The woman was probably working with Hurston. Police believe this could be the same couple responsible for at least four other incidents since December.


Paul – play stupid games win stupid prizes

Was the woman caught?

Son Defends Mother – and Memory of Father – In Home Invasion

History repeated itself 50 years later when a shot was fired during a home invasion.  This time, it was the invader who suffered the gunshot wound. A 54-year-old Chicago man who had lost his father to a home robber 5 decades in the past, defended himself and his 88-year-old mother when a man tried to break into the home’s window.  “I heard the gunshot,” Tate said. “And then my son called me, ‘Momma, somebody tried to break in the window.'” Police followed a trail of blood and found the 36-year-old wounded man two blocks away. The wounded man was taken to a hospital with a .22 caliber injury to his arm.


The uninjured woman said several of her siblings and children have been killed in gun violence. However, she is glad her son was there and armed with her pistol. “My son said he wasn’t going to let that somebody come in that window. He knew those boys came in the house and killed his father. He wasn’t going to let somebody come in the house and kill me.” However, the old girl said that the intruder was lucky. If she had been the one shooting, she would have shot through the window and hit him in the chest.


Paul – Good on them- but let’s think about a larger caliber than .22.


Chicagoland Street Robbery Fatal to Thug

Also from the mean streets of Chicagoland comes a tale of three men, two guns, and a CCW license.

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.



6- E-mail, blog notes, and show close


Email from Alan in New Jersey




As a resident of a state (NJ) that has a de facto ban on civilian Concealed Carry, what are your thoughts on a “trunk gun”? In accordance with NJ law, I can have an unloaded long gun, in a “secured bag or package” in my vehicle at all times. Handguns are unfortunately trickier, as we are only legally allowed to have them in our vehicle if we are going to/from a gun shop or shooting range.


My opinion on the idea of a trunk gun is that it’s largely worthless, in that if i have the opportunity to escape a situation to grab my rifle from the car, then i have the opportunity to escape the situation PERIOD. If i’m in a mobile situation, it’d be impossible to get to the weapon, charge it, and get it into action and ALSO if the vehicle is still mobile, then getting out of there is the #1 option.


Thanks for listening, and i’m thoroughly enjoying the podcast.


Rob- I agree with you, Alan.  

Paul – School active shooter.

Gary –

Rachel – didn’t we have a DGU where the guy defended himself with a trunk gun successfully? Like Paul said…why not have the option? For daily regular carry though, find other legal options

John – In other states, if you are allowed to have a pistol in the car, this might be the case where an AR-15 pistol could come in handy. It would be essentially a PDW.



David from Ohio wrote in as well


Dear Polite Society,

Over Easter weekend we spent time with my wife’s sister’s family on both days. Her sister let’s call K and her husband J.  J is definitely middle to the left and comes from a very liberal family so we don’t talk politics much during the holidays. Anyway, Saturday we were talking about the Brussels attack and K and J said (paraphrasing), you have guns. If there is ever an emergency, we will bring our 4 kids over to your house and you will protect us. To which I tried to play it off. Now it is important to point out that J is a doctor so having someone with medical training would be good. But neither have any knowledge of firearms or self defense so handing them a gun would just be dangerous. On Sunday J started talking about how Garland was a good pick for the Supreme Court because he is a “middle of the road” candidate. I told him I thought Garland was a horrible choice and it goes right along with Obama’s anti-gun stance. He replied that I should hope he gets the nomination because Hillary will put someone even worse in. I ended the conversation. So to recap, nominate someone who wants to take guns away. But in case of emergency, run to the person that has them for protection. After all, it’s not your responsibility to protect yourself and family. Yup, sounds liberal to me. Keep up the good work.
David from Ohio


Rachel- As humans, we’re all inconsistent in some way. This kind of inconsistency is easy for us to spot in others. On the positive side, maybe this inconsistency will give you an opening to soften them more to the idea of firearms ownership and use as a positive thing. Maybe they’ll eventually get training themselves to take responsibility for their own kids’ safety.

Rob- Ask them why they want to run to you and your house?


Todd emailed in a comment about a previous episode.


Comment from last week’s show. The 2183 stamp is on the face of the follower; you don’t have to disassemble the mag. However, there may be another solution. I was having trouble with 124 gr HST +P in my G19. I had approx 2300 rds through the gun. I asked the local LE Glock rep about the followers and he recommended a new RSA (recoil spring assembly). He mentioned that in his experience, a new RSA fixed most feeding problems. Sure enough, that fixed my issues with the HST’s. I’m still using 2183 followers in all my CA mags.


Incidentally, if you simply feel like you have to replace them, give Glock a call. They will probably send you a few free of charge.






A Text came in from JP




Hey guys & gals, I have a DGU question. After you stop a home invasion and you call the police. What would you advise your family to say to the police? I know you’re suppose to say very little to the police until after I talk with my attorney but my family, what are they suppose to say? I can see how what they say may help or hurt me unintentionally in my defense.


Rob- same rules apply.

Rachel – GREAT point. Talk with your family ahead of time and tell them this.

Gary –



Paul: Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?


Rob- I wrote about the messy reality of self-defense and about a few of the times armed civilians saved lives in March.  That article and more are posted at Clash Daily, at Ammoland and at my blog slow facts dot wordpress dot com.


John, tell us what’s new at your blog no lawyers only guns and money


John – It’s been a long show so I just want to point briefly out a post I did today. It is called Every Picture Tells A Story, Part V. It shows the growth of shall issue and permitless carry since 1986. Look at the charts. We are winning.


That and more is at only guns and money dot blogspot dot com.


We would like to thank Charlie Foxtrot for writing up show notes for us. Even though you don’t hear him on the air he is certainly part of what you do hear. Look at his blog at not one more gun law dot blogspot dot com


Paul: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  So for Charlie Foxtrot, Gary, Rob, John, Rachel and Susan,

(Paul, stop talking now)


Rachel: Until the next time…

Gary: stay safe,

Susan: be aware,

Paul: and we’ll see you down the road.