Episode 307 – David Cole, Andrew Rothman, Philip Van Cleave

“An armed society is a polite society.. and this is the Polite Society Podcast where we support and report on civilian self-defense.”
John: Welcome to the polite society podcast presented by the Firearms Policy Coalition.  We’re recording on Wednesday, January 28, 2015. I’m John Richardson.
Rachel: I’m Rachel Malone and on tonights show we’ll get the news from Andrew Rothman about the gun owners lobby day in Minnesota, and with Philip Van Cleave on the lobby day in Virginia.
Rob: I’m Rob Morse, and I’ll comment on SHOT show before we dive into the news, so climb aboard.
Rachel- strap in
John-  and hang on!  Episode 307 of the Polite Society Podcast starts right now.
Show intro music.

Seg 1- Personal news from each participant

John- Welcome back to the personal news segment powered by the firearms policy coalition.
Rachel- I was at the Capitol last weekend, but not as a gun lobbyist – for once. I attended the annual pro-life rally with thousands of other Texans. To me, it’s essentially the same issue as gun rights – I’m supporting innocent life. I have a call in to Lt. Governor’s policy director to ask some direct questions regarding his blatant carelessness about open carry. Other than that, I’ve been working very long days at the music business, as one of my major events for teh year is this weekend.
Rob- I’ve a few notes left over from from SHOT show.  First, I didn’t recognize the salesmen at the Beeman airgun booth.  Beeman was bought by Shanghai Airgun.

Second- I checked the 4H booth after a homeschool mom asked me about their firearms training for youngsters.  4H does NOT share their firearms curriculum.  It is not available on their website.

Daisy does share firearms safety courses for children. http://www.daisy.com/education

Third- a listener asked me to lay hands on 380 pistols and share what I learned.  They were particularly interested in the Kimber 380s.  380s as a class are small and light.  They were designed to be a concealed carry gun.. a pocket gun.  They are small, and maybe they are too small and too light for you.  They are hard to shoot well.  More than any other gun, you have to shoot them to know if they fit you, and if you like them.  YOU need to shoot them, not your spouse and not your friend.  Certainly not me.  You need to shoot them for two reasons.

My hands are up in the 80th percentile size for males, so what fits you might not fit me.  I’m also a recoil junkie, so what I like might not be to your taste. You  have to know the particular gun fits you, and that it is reliable.  Many 380s are not.  I can say this with certainty, 380s are not a good gun for beginners.  Do not start your firearms training with a 380 in your pocket unless you’ve already taken a course that taught you to present a loaded firearm from a concealed holster.

Why is that?  Many of the 380s have the same bore over hand distance of a 9mm.  The 9mm is typically larger overall, but the trigger and feed mechanisms do not shrink in proportion to the bullet diameter.  You NEED to grip the gun because the resistance of your body is necessary to force the frame forward against the recoiling slide.  The gun will fail to feed if you don’t grab it firmly.

Kimber 380
Square and sharp front sight.  That is unusual for a concealed carry handgun since it catches on a pocket or holster.
Exposed hammer. Manual thumb safety.
Good single action trigger and trigger reset for a 380.
High bore over hand distance.  That causes a little more muzzle flip.
7+1 capacity

I needed a magazine extension for me to get all of my fingers on the gun.

Walther 380-  worse trigger and worse bore over hand compared to the kimber.  Slightly larger frame so it fit my hands a little better.

Kahr- the trigger is best described as industrial.   (I’ve used vice grips that were smoother and more positive.)  Worse barrel over hand distance.  They have different models with slightly longer grip length to fit your hands.

KelTek- Could only fit one finger on the grip in addition to my trigger finger in the trigger guard.  That leaves two fingers on the magazine.. and the mag wobbled in the mag well.

Finally- I also looked at the Boberg pistol. It is advertised as shorter in length than conventional striker fired and hammer fired guns.  It is.  The distance from the front of the trigger to the back of the slide is about an inch shorter than similar firearms.  It is hard on ammunition because of how it cycles.  It needs ammunition with a solid crimp to run reliably.  The factory tells you what ammunition to use.  Range reloads are not on the list.  I’ve heard owners swear by it, and gunsmiths swear at it.

comment -John – Both Browning and Rock Island Armory are coming out with ¾ size 1911s in .380. I did shoot the Browning one at Media Day and it was nice.

John- After a week in Las Vegas, it is hard to get back into the swing of things. I almost need a vacation from my vacation at the SHOT Show! Even though I saw a lot of stuff there, I missed a lot as well. For instance, I missed that Colt is re-releasing the Colt 1903 in a limited edition. l also missed a lot of the new companies that were on the first floor.

Given that I missed a lot of companies, that means I need to go back again next year!

The SHOT Show is as much about people as it is about product. I was introduced by trainer Paul Carlson by Grant Cunningham who has been on this show. They both are on The Gun Nation Podcast. Both Rob and I got to meet Tatiana Whitlock who has done videos for NRA Women and who has produced a video on guns and kids for Panteao Productions. She has agreed to do an interview in the future. I also got to meet Laurel Yashimoto at Michael Bane’s shindig. She writes for the Shooting Wire, is an active competitor, and is an Orange County sheriff’s deputy. She was a high school teacher who went into law enforcement after one of her students was sexually molested because she wanted to do more to stop it than she could as a teacher.

LSR software vs freeware?

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Seg 2- News

-We gave you a short report that Sheldon Silver was arrested in New York.  Democrat Silver was the speaker of the state assembly.  He was one of the politicians you paid off if you wanted legislation passed in New York.  He sponsored the New York SAFE act.  He got that legislation passed as an emergency measure in the early hours of the morning.  He was arrested for taking millions in bribes.  He was charged  by a U S Attorney, but will be prosecuted by career democrat prosecutor.

Rob- any bets?  John, Sheldon Silver remains in office.  He has not withdrawn as speaker of the senate.  Has he been corrupt enough, long enough to be successfully prosecuted in New York?

-Former Nevada lobbyist Harvey Whittemore was convicted for circumventing campaign finance limits.  He laundered contributions to US Senator Harry Reid as far back as 2007.  Whittemore distributed $145,000 to 17 relatives and employees.  Each of these third parties  then made the maximum contribution of $4,600 to Senator Reid’s campaign.  The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld Whittemore’s conviction on Monday.  Senator Reid has blocked all the pro- self defense bills in the Senate.

-I bet Reid doesn’t like gun owners very much.  TV commentator Bryant Gumbel doesn’t like us at all.  He hosts HBO’s program Real Sports. Gumbel said, and I quote, “There are a few things I hate more than the NRA. I mean truly. I think they’re pigs. I think they don’t care about human life. I think they are a curse upon the American landscape.”  close quote.  Our friend, and fellow NRA member David Cole wrote about Mister Gumbel.  Welcome back to the podcast, David.  What did Mister Gumbel say and where did he say it.  (David Cole interview)

Gumbel is justifying bigotry and preparing the road to abuse by dehumanizing gun owners.
BMW was going to use Gumbel in a commercial.  I wrote BMW.  I got a form letter in reply.

Dear Mr. Morse:
Thank you for writing to BMW of North America, LLC regarding the advertisement.

We appreciate the time you have taken to share your thoughts.  Please be assured that your comments have been forwarded to the appropriate department for review.
The BMW Customer Relations and Services Department is available Monday through Friday from 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m., ET.  You can reach us at 1-800-831-1117.
Thank you again for expressing your opinion.
Emily Lane
Customer Relations and Services Representative

-The DC police had gone so far as to draw up arrest documents for NBC broadcaster David Gregory.  The DC attorney general squashed his arrest.  The DC Police Department warned NBC News that it could not possess an actual high-capacity magazine in their DC studio.  NBC News did it anyway. The police recommended a warrant for Gregory’s arrest.  They prepared that warrant, but failed to serve it after D.C. Attorney General Irvin Nathan said Gregory was just too nice a guy and had no other criminal intent.  David Gregory was also useful to the District politicians.  That attitude towards possessory violations of DC gun law is  very different when compared to how the D.C. Attorney General has vigorously prosecuted lesser-known people who also were nice people and had no other criminal intent.  There really are a set of laws for famous people, and a different set of laws for us.

Rob- we knew that before, but the blog legal insurrection and judicial watch got us the evidence in black and white.

-While we’re talking about corrupt DC bureaucrats.  The District of Columbia issued its first concealed handgun carry permits. There are now eight civilians who can legally carry a firearm in the nation’s capital. That is about one person for each 80 thousand civilians in the district.  More of the new DC applications have been denied than approved.  The City Council adopted a “may issue” law which denies the ordinary citizen a permit.  The DC city council required 18 hours of training and 110 dollars in application fees.  They also require that each  applicants prove to city officials that they have been threatened and have police reports on file.  The licensing process is condemned by rights activists.

DC also certified a few more trainers to teach the required 16 hours of classroom instruction and 2 hours of range training.  Six trainers have been certified, so that leaves one and a third customers per trainer.

-Speaking of training, we met Tatiana Whitlock at the SHOT show.  She starred in a educational video made by Panteo Productions.  Panteo has a line of videos that focus on competition and survival training.  This one is different.  This video is free on Youtube. It is called “Kids & Guns with Tatiana Whitlock”  It includes use, storage, and education.  Of course we have the link in our show notes.

-Reporter Tim Steller of the Arizona Daily Star in Tucson published a piece about serious misconduct and intimidation from DOJ attorneys.  Their misconduct arose when former ATF agent and whistleblower Jay Dobyns sued the government.  One of the recently unsealed documents was from presiding judge Francis Allegra.  The judge said the Justice Department attorneys had “committed fraud on the court.”  The Department of Justice asked ATF agents not to investigate the arson that burned down Dobyns house.  Agents were threatened, and  Department of Justice attorneys ordered ATF agents not to report the threat to the court or the agents would face repercussions.

-This article was sent in by listener Anthony.  Gun rights activists staged another rally at the Texas state Capitol as they asked for open carry of handguns without a license in Texas.  This time they wore holsters, and the holsters were not empty!  They were stuffed with rolled up copies of the US and Texas Constitution, with bananas, and with cans of hairspray.. since that was all that Texas law allows.  Texas hasn’t allowed open carry of handguns, with or without a license, since right after the Civil War.

-Why does open carry matter?  Let’s take an example from Florida where open carry is forbidden.  Michael Foster was standing in a parking lot when he saw that a man was carrying a firearm.  Foster followed the 62 year old black man, then tackled and choked the gun owner as he entered Walmart.  The black man is Clarence Daniels.  He is a concealed carry holder.  The only possible charge against Mister Daniels is that he let himself print as he got out of his car.  Florida resident have been charged for printing before Florida laws were changed.   Foster was arrested, taken into custody and charged with assault and battery.

-Let’s keep going. Jonathan Romans is an active member of both moms demand action and the coalition to stop gun violence.  He comments on their pages a lot.  Romans has openly called for harassment and violence against law abiding gun owners.  He said, “..when a stranger enters a public place armed, ask to see his permit.  If he produces one, cross your fingers.  If not, then tackle him, or shoot him, because then it will not be too late.”

Does that mean we get to tackle  Bloomberg’s bodyguards?  How about the armed guards protecting Shannon Watts, Rosie O’Donnell, Piers Morgan, Chuck Schumer, and Dianne Feinstein?  Can we tackle and disarm them too.  Shannon says that all firearms owners are crazy gunmen.

-We talked about a rally in Austin Texas last week.  Human rights activists also rallied in Minneapolis, Minnesota to defend the right of self-defense. Andrew Rothman is with us to talk about Minnesota gun owners lobby day.

Our first gun owners lobby day at the capitol when legislators were in session.  We had 230 volunteers at the rally.  We visited every legislators.  Some left the capitol, and some refused to meet with us.  Our citizen lobbyists were encouraged.  We’re looking to pass a law to allow hunting with suppressors in Minnesota.  Our biggest opposition is from big city police chiefs.  They have stated their opposition to all gun bills.  That puts the chiefs in sharp conflict with our sheriffs.

Our volunteers are pretty smart.  We helped them set up their meetings with the legislators.  We gave them a list of issues we’re working on this year.  We expect our volunteers to bring their friends to the next hometown meeting in their local legislative districts.

Rally in Richmond, Virginia.   Phil Van Cleave about lobby day and their recent legislative success.  This past Monday a Virginia Senate committee killed Gov. Terry McAuliffe’s gun control bills. Now on Thursday, the VA General Assembly takes up a bill that will allow lifetime concealed carry permits. Reporter Emily Miller was one of the speakers at the VCDL Lobby Day rally and now the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence wants her fired. They have a petition up saying she violated journalistic ethics by speaking there.

700 people.  VCDL walked into every legislator’s office, though a few offices were empty.  Governor McAuliffe’s anti-gun bills died, but one may have been resurrected.

Comment- I guess they hate both the Second and First Amendments.

-In other state news, bills before the Nebraska legislature allow armed security at private schools.  Another bill recognizes lawful aliens and military spouses so they meet state residency requirements when applying for a handgun application.  The bill also lets legal gun owners to store a gun in a vehicle parked outside a business where they’re employed.

Constitutional carry is being considered in New Hampshire.  The republican legislature allowed concealed weapons back into the House Chamber. Now they have a bill granting constitutional carry so  you don’t need a state-issued license in order to carry a concealed gun.  New Hampshire is already an open carry state, meaning if you can buy a gun you can carry it in the open. But if you want to carry a concealed firearm, you need to apply for a license to your local police. The constitutional carry bill would allow anyone who can legally own a gun to carry that firearm concealed.  The bill is sponsored by the Senate Majority leader.

Rachel (comment) – Constitutional Carry has also been introduced in South Dakota.

-My day job is as a financial advisor.  I can quote you chapter and verse about compound interest making your future secure.  In this next news story I’m not talking about money.  We’re talking about the growth of firearms owners in Iowa.  They changed the concealed carry laws in 2011 and allowed multi-year carry permits.  The Iowa legislature also reduced their training requirements. After those changes,  concealed carry applications grew by 55% each year.  That is almost a 6 fold increase since 2010.  1 in 14 Iowans now have their carry license, or 1 in 10 eligible adults.  That means firearms rights are secure in Iowa, and growing more so.

– Texas’ brand-new Lt. Governor Dan Patrick is working on damage control after statements he made about open carry in the Texas Senate. He was elected in a highly-contested four-way primary last year. Gun owners favored another candidate, so Patrick had tried to convince us that he was our candidate by saying he’d support open carry. Earlier this week, he issued the following statement: “Open carry is important, but I don’t think there is support in the Legislature to pass it. The votes have not been there.” (end quote) He said he didn’t consider open carry a priority, and indicated he didn’t intend to bring it to the floor of the Senate. The people of Texas responded by flooding his facebook page and phone lines in support of open carry and constitutional carry. Patrick issued another statement today: “Now that SB 11 (campus carry) has support and is moving toward passage we can focus on other 2nd Amendment issues, including open carry, which I have consistently supported.” (end quote)

Rachel (comment)- Morals of the story:
#1 – don’t trust campaign statements. There are always ways they wiggle out when push comes to shove.
#2 – phone calls and facebook comments CAN apply effective pressure.
#3 – Patrick’s “baby” was changing the Senate rules to require only a 3/5 majority, not 2/3. That came up for a vote and passed. All the Republicans supported their fellow Republican Lt. Governor in voting for it…that is, all except Senator Estes, who is carrying the licensed open carry bill. Anybody think that could have anything to do with Patrick trying to stonewall open carry?

Texans, make your voice heard: Call Patrick’s office at 512-463-0001.

Rachel- Gun Quotes– This quote was sent in by listener Matthew Martin.  “It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion.”  That quote is from William Ralph Inge who was an English author, an Anglican priest, a professor of divinity at Cambridge, and Dean of St Paul’s Cathedral.
rob What have you done lately?

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Hang on everybody, we’ll be back with our defensive gun use segment.

Segment 4 DGUs
-An armed robber walked up to a surveyor working a job site in Miami, Florida.  The robber pointed a gun at the surveyor and demanded his money.  The victim said he didn’t have any money, so the robber demanded the victim’s cellphone and told him to get on the ground. The victim complied, but while he was on the ground the victim took out his own gun and shot the robber.  The robber was taken to Broward General Medical center with non-life threatening injuries.  The surveyor’s employer said surveyors are often robbed of their surveying instruments and computers.

-Tai Carr was one of several people attacked outside a friend’s home in Houston Texas. Carr face was severely beaten with a pistol.   Another friend arrived at the residence, and the robbers then forced everyone inside at gunpoint.  In the confusion, Carr slipped back outside and retrieved his handgun from his vehicle.  Mister Carr then went back inside the home and shot one of the robbers.  The second robber fled at the sound of gunfire.  The wounded robber died in minutes.  Quote “it was over instantly.”  Police found the second robber, 23-year-old Marquez Romero Heckard, hiding in the bathroom of a nearby Wendy’s restaurant. He was holding the gun used in the robbery.  Heckard was charged with assault last year.  Now he faces aggravated assault with a deadly weapon and aggravated robbery with a deadly weapon.  He is being held without bail.

-A crazy man broke into a couple’s home in rural Racine County Wisconsin.  He entered through a back room window, and stood over his victims before the male homeowner woke up and fought him.  The female homeowner grabbed her gun and shot at the intruder.  The intruder fled, but not before he slashed the male homeowner’s throat.  Police followed the intruder’s tracks to a local home.  The intruder kept a journal where he planned his attack and said he planned to kill the couple.

-A robber entered the Grand Slam Market near Nashville, Tennessee.  The robber was wearing a mask.  The thief drew his firearm, pointed it at the clerk’s face, and demanded the money in the cash register.  The 52 year old store clerk is named Jeff Sloan, and Sloan opened the register.  The robber took the money and started to walk away.  That is when Sloan drew his own firearm. The thief turned back towards the clerk and the store owner who were in the store.  The clerk shot the thief in the chest.  The thief had six prior convictions for aggravated robbery and a conviction for facilitation of kidnapping.  The thief hit a tree and a fire hydrant as he tried to drive away.  The thief was taken to Vanderbilt University Medical Center where he is in stable condition.

We post each of our news and defensive gun use articles at Polite Society Podcast.com  Please take a minute and share them with a friend.

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Segment 5 Show close
Listener e-mail discussion

from Jason in Texas
Hi Rachel. What is going on with different groups pushing different pro gun bills here in Texas. Shouldn’t we all be pushing for the same thing? Thanks

Rachel- Not necessarily.
First off, I support everyone’s right to support what they want. I never tell anyone what bill they must support or oppose. I just try to give accurate info, and I share my reasons for why I support what I do.

Sure, I wish everyone would join me in supporting constitutional carry (HB 195/SB 342) but hey….I see lots of good things from people supporting different things in different ways.

1 – It shows that we’re all thinking for ourselves – that we’re supporting our own beliefs, not parroting someone else’s.

2 – it changes what people view as “radical” and moves “moderate” our direction

3 – lots of bills isn’t a bad thing. duplicate bills are common. It increases the popularity it a popular thing to do. It gives us more options – if some don’t make it through but others do, they can be potentially amended to have the language we wanted

4 – people learn the process better and stick with it more since they have to research for themselves….they’re not being spoon-fed

Rob- I use Popvox to lobby my representatives.  I support H.R. 419 The Knife Owners’ Protection Act. A pocket knife should not be the way a policeman forcibly enters a citizen’s wallet.

(DO NOT READ)The Polite Society download app is out on Amazon for Android and the I-phone app is in I-tunes and it is called Podcast Box.  They are located by our old name, Politics and guns.  Hot links are in our show notes.

Rob, do you have any new posts from your SlowFacts blog you want to mention?

The next article is called the twisted mirror of gun control.

John do you want to mention anything off of your blog you would like to talk about?

We’re thinking about changing the show.  We might shorten it to an hour and break that hour into separate 15 minute segments for download.  Please let us know what you think.

John: That wraps up another episode of the Polite Society Podcast.  I’d like to thank Phil Van Cleave, Dave Cole and Andrew Rothman for talking with us today.  co-hosts, will you be with us next time?  I’m looking forward to it.  Until the next time…
Rachel: stay safe,
Rob: be aware,
John: and we’ll see you down the road.

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(DO NOT READ)Join your local civil rights group like the New Jersey Second Amendment Society, Arizona Citizens Defense League, Gun Owners of California, Commonwealth Second Amendment,  Connecticut Citizens Defense League, Florida Carry, Georgia Carry, Georgia Gun Owners, Grass Roots North Carolina, Illinois Carry, Maryland Shall Issue,  Michigan Gun Owners , Michigan Open Carry, and  Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners.

There are Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance,  Nebraska Firearms Owners Association,   Citizens for a Safer New Jersey, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association,  Palmetto Concealed Carry, Open Carry Texas, Texas Firearms Freedom, Texas State Rifle Association. Tennessee Firearms Association, Virginia Citizens Defense League, Virginia Open Carry,  West Virginia Citizens Defense League, wisconsingunowners.org, and Wyoming Gun Owners.

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3 thoughts on “Episode 307 – David Cole, Andrew Rothman, Philip Van Cleave

  1. Great updates on the news side of things this week– I think that breaking the show up into a couple different segments could be beneficial to download-only listeners!

  2. Pingback: Polite Society Podcast Episode 307- Cole, Rothman and Cleave

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